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Author Topic:   Animals with bad design.
Briterican
Member (Idle past 3978 days)
Posts: 340
Joined: 05-29-2008


Message 25 of 204 (601843)
01-24-2011 5:07 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Aaron
01-15-2011 4:22 AM


Aaron writes:
What does it mean to be perfect? Let's push Jerry Coyne's suppositions further. Why didn't God create sea turtles with another set of limbs with sharp claws to fend off predators. Wings would have been nice too just in case it needs a quick getaway.
Why can't mice run 60 mph to escape the swooping owl? Why aren't all plant species poisonous to fend off hungry herbivores?
Ahh yes, that's more like it - a world where every species has the maximum level of offensive and defensive capabilities.
But wait - how long do you think a world like that would last? If every plant and animals is perfectly equipped to fend off every potential snack seeker - nothing would get eaten, nutrients wouldn't be exchanged, the complex circle of life would come to a grinding halt.
When it comes to creating a complex interdependent ecosystem, vulnerability is necessary to keep the whole thing going.
Co-evolution, sometimes referred to as "arms races" are complex relationships between predator and prey, parasite and host. If God has designed these systems which quite often result in the prolonged suffering of one party or another, shame on him. Evolutionary theory dispenses with this silly idea of a gamemaster (or apprentice creator as jar wittily put it before) looking down on his experimental globe of subjects, nudging them this way or that for jollies, by presenting a framework for understanding how gradual changes over time can explain these complex systems that at first glance might appear "designed".
Dawkins writes:
Note that the arms race is run in evolutionary time. It is not to be confused with the race between an individual cheetah, say, and a gazelle, which is run in real time. The race in evolutionary time is a race to build up the equipment for races run in real time. And what that actually means is that genes for making the equipment to outsmart or outrun the other side build up in the gene pools on the two sides. Second - and this is a point that Darwin himself knew well - the equipment for running fast is used to outrun rivals of the same species, who are fleeing from the same predator. The well-known joke, which has an almost Aesopian ring to it, about the running shoes and the bear is apposite. When a cheetah chases a herd of gazelles, it may be more important for an individual gazelle to outrun the slowest member of the herd than to outrun the cheetah.
Keep posting... apart from this...
Aaron writes:
God designed this world for a specific purpose - in order to make it possible for the perfect world yet to come.
... which is unfounded, unsupported opinion, I found your comments interesting.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Aaron, posted 01-15-2011 4:22 AM Aaron has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 34 by Aaron, posted 01-24-2011 7:43 PM Briterican has replied

  
Briterican
Member (Idle past 3978 days)
Posts: 340
Joined: 05-29-2008


Message 32 of 204 (601875)
01-24-2011 7:40 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by Aaron
01-24-2011 7:27 PM


The anthropomorphic pot calling the kettle black
Aaron writes:
you are looking at it from a human perspective. You are reading your ideas of human suffering into the animal kingdom.
Just as you are reading your ideas of life based on your existence as a human on this tiny world into the universe as a whole. Don't accuse others of anthropomorphising when theists do it on a galactic scale.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by Aaron, posted 01-24-2011 7:27 PM Aaron has not replied

  
Briterican
Member (Idle past 3978 days)
Posts: 340
Joined: 05-29-2008


Message 35 of 204 (601879)
01-24-2011 7:49 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by Aaron
01-24-2011 7:43 PM


Aaron writes:
Again, I think you are reading into it from your human emotional perspectives.
I say again... you are on no ground to accuse others of anthropomorphising when theists do it on an intergalactic scale. The theist notion that some divine being cares about us on this tiny little speck of a grain of dust in a vast sea of stars is arrogant beyond belief (yes, that is my opinion). Perhaps you'd care to re-examine your own stance on divinity, thinking about it from the perspective that you are arrogantly presuming that mankind is somehow at the centre of the cosmos. Who is created in whose image?

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 Message 34 by Aaron, posted 01-24-2011 7:43 PM Aaron has not replied

  
Briterican
Member (Idle past 3978 days)
Posts: 340
Joined: 05-29-2008


Message 68 of 204 (602924)
02-01-2011 5:15 PM
Reply to: Message 58 by barbara
01-30-2011 10:51 AM


Re: Re-think needed?
barbara writes:
Fine then why don't you list at least 10 examples of species that are actually extinct and 10 examples of species that are descent with modification and how exactly that you determine this to be a fact.
http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Extinct_species writes:
Descendants may or may not exist for extinct species. Daughter species that evolve from a parent species carry on most of the parent species' genetic information, and even though the parent species may become extinct, the daughter species lives on. In other cases, species have produced no new variants, or none that are able to survive the parent species' extinction.
Extinction of a parent species where daughter species or subspecies are still alive is also called pseudoextinction. Many of prehistoric extinct species have evolved into new species; for example the extinct Eohippus (an ancient horse-like animal) was the ancestor of several extant species including the horse, the zebra and the donkey. The Eohippus itself is no more, but its decendants live on. It is therefore said to be pseudoextinct.
That's not the 10 examples you asked for, but it directly addresses what i think is one of your qualms - how life goes on despite the 99.9% extinction rate.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by barbara, posted 01-30-2011 10:51 AM barbara has not replied

  
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