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Author Topic:   Inductive Atheism
Perdition
Member (Idle past 3266 days)
Posts: 1593
From: Wisconsin
Joined: 05-15-2003


(1)
Message 142 of 536 (607561)
03-04-2011 2:43 PM


My Argument Against Belief
Ok, I apologize if someone has said largely what I'm saying here, but after reading countless threads and posts on the subject, I honestly couldn't bring myself to continue reading this one.
What we have is a propostion: "People from all over the planet believe in a supernatural deity." If you strip away all the specifics of the various religions, you'll come to this undefined/undefinable supernatual being (or beings) which RAZD seems to be defending ad mauseum. I can sort of see his point about consillience, and this consillience does imply a singular cause. As it stands, I'm aware of only two potential causes being bandied about.
1) Cause 1 is the commonality of the human brain, mind and psyche. As support for this cause, we have uncounted billions of examples of people:
a) Creating completely unreal concepts. i.e. fiction, lies, delusions, etc.
b) Believeing unreal things that they, or others, have conceived through deceit, ignorance, or psychosis.
c) Desiring explanations for natural things that, as yet, have no explanation. (at one time, lightning. now-a-days, the existence of anything rather than nothing, death, etc)
This cause is able to explain, and predict, other such phomenon.
2) Cause 2 is the actual existence of some form of supernatural deity that is not, or is unable to be, understood by human minds.
In support of this cause, we have nothing beyond the phenomenon we are trying to explain. This cause is unable to predict anything beyond the specific phenomenon we are trying to explain.
When we have cause 1, with it's superior predictive and explanatory abilities and known existence, compared to cause 2, with no predictive/explanatory abilities and is unevidenced except by the very phenomenon we're considering, I think it is not only logical, but right to place most of our support behind cause 1, and until more evidence is brought forth, to ignore cause 2.
Can RAZD, or any other Deist, tell me where in my analysis I have performed logical fallacies, or have misunderstood the argument?

Replies to this message:
 Message 143 by Straggler, posted 03-04-2011 2:47 PM Perdition has not replied
 Message 146 by bluegenes, posted 03-04-2011 4:40 PM Perdition has replied
 Message 195 by New Cat's Eye, posted 03-15-2011 10:52 AM Perdition has not replied

Perdition
Member (Idle past 3266 days)
Posts: 1593
From: Wisconsin
Joined: 05-15-2003


Message 148 of 536 (607573)
03-04-2011 4:50 PM
Reply to: Message 146 by bluegenes
03-04-2011 4:40 PM


Re: Consilience
The weirdest and most striking example of consilience I've found so far is two completely separate cultures on different continents (India and North America) which both have a world supporting turtle. Apart from world supporting elephants (India also) I can't think off hand of other world supporting animals, so it seems odd that the two should make the same choice out of so many animals available. The turtle's shell is the only source of inspiration I can think of.
Maybe spomeone took copies of Terry Pratchett's DIscworld books back in time. In his books, DIscworld (whic is in fact flat) is supported on the backs of four elephants who in turn live on the back of Great A'Tuin, the massive turtle swimming through space (to only he knows where).

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 Message 146 by bluegenes, posted 03-04-2011 4:40 PM bluegenes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 149 by bluegenes, posted 03-04-2011 5:00 PM Perdition has replied

Perdition
Member (Idle past 3266 days)
Posts: 1593
From: Wisconsin
Joined: 05-15-2003


Message 150 of 536 (607575)
03-04-2011 5:03 PM
Reply to: Message 149 by bluegenes
03-04-2011 5:00 PM


Re: Consilience
I love the Discworld - my favourite fantasy world.
Mine too, though they're only so good because I've read so many other fantasy series...not to mention police-type procedurals and such.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 149 by bluegenes, posted 03-04-2011 5:00 PM bluegenes has not replied

Perdition
Member (Idle past 3266 days)
Posts: 1593
From: Wisconsin
Joined: 05-15-2003


Message 176 of 536 (608016)
03-08-2011 10:51 AM
Reply to: Message 175 by Straggler
03-08-2011 10:43 AM


Re: Do you have no conceptual idea of what it is you believe exists?
The source of the concept of a tree is not human imagination. It is the existence of real trees.
I believe you and CS are using two different definitions of the word source. What CS is saying, is that all concepts come from the mind, that's what makes them concepts, and thus the mind is the source. The concept of a tree, however, is inspired by the actual existence of trees.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 175 by Straggler, posted 03-08-2011 10:43 AM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 179 by Straggler, posted 03-08-2011 12:50 PM Perdition has not replied

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