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Author Topic:   Is the evolution of modern man going to stop
jar
Member
Posts: 29818
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 16 of 107 (611313)
04-07-2011 10:32 AM
Reply to: Message 15 by frako
04-07-2011 10:20 AM


Re: Selection = Reproduction
Why?

Does diabetes usually kill before puberty?


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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Taq
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Posts: 7282
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.0


Message 17 of 107 (611314)
04-07-2011 10:40 AM
Reply to: Message 16 by jar
04-07-2011 10:32 AM


Re: Selection = Reproduction
Why?
Does diabetes usually kill before puberty?

Juvenile type I diabetes does.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by jar, posted 04-07-2011 10:32 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
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jar
Member
Posts: 29818
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 18 of 107 (611315)
04-07-2011 10:45 AM
Reply to: Message 17 by Taq
04-07-2011 10:40 AM


Re: Selection = Reproduction
Sometimes, but it is also often not even detected until a child is in there teens or a young adult. And that is today with the modern healthcare and diagnosis.

I see no reason that even Juvenile Type 1 diabetes could not be passed on genetically.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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Tanus
Junior Member (Idle past 2207 days)
Posts: 17
Joined: 08-25-2011


Message 19 of 107 (630405)
08-25-2011 2:32 AM


My thought on this question is that selection is still very much in play today. Some people have children while others do not and some people are still more desirable partners than others. If you survive long enough to have children, if you succeed in having children, and if your children have children, then you are an evolutionary success, otherwise you are a failure.

As a first simple thought, those in our society are wealthy are probably being selected for ultimate success. The traits that make someone wealthy and produce children will most likely be selected for, while the traits that make someone poor and without children will be selected against.

Are things like economics natural selection? Who in the world believes that humanity is somehow above nature? Our wars and our economic injustices are evolution at work.


Replies to this message:
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IamJoseph
Member (Idle past 1285 days)
Posts: 2822
Joined: 06-30-2007


Message 20 of 107 (630409)
08-25-2011 4:08 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by frako
03-08-2011 11:03 AM


quote:
Is evolution in modern man still going on or will it be suppressed by medicine science and our way of life.

A far more vital question hovers. Are other life forms also going to advance as has humans? Why has only one life form attained a higher brain and speech - the most powerful tools a life form can possess? This says a life form [species] follows its own kind, and is not fundamentally impacted by evolution but the directive program transmitted by the host parents.

The question becomes all the more impacting when we consider other life forms have the advantage of time - they had all the time to advance further, if not in the path of humans, then in other equally advanced paths. What we find instead, is that all life forms, despite their difference in skeletal designs, advance in one path with a common denominator, while humans have taken a singular, unique different path, one different in kind: the ratio is all trillions of life forms VS one human kind.

If evolution impacts all life - this impact is not the factor applying with humans. The math says so.


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Dr Adequate
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Posts: 15987
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 4.0


Message 21 of 107 (630410)
08-25-2011 4:15 AM
Reply to: Message 20 by IamJoseph
08-25-2011 4:08 AM


A far more vital question hovers. Are other life forms also going to advance as has humans? Why has only one life form attained a higher brain and speech - the most powerful tools a life form can possess? This says a life form [species] follows its own kind, and is not fundamentally impacted by evolution but the directive program transmitted by the host parents.

Orthogenesis? In this day and age?

In that case, perhaps you could clear up something that I wanted to ask one of you guys --- how in the world can you reconcile orthogenesis with adaptive radiation?

If evolution impacts all life - this impact is not the factor applying with humans. The math says so.

Curiously enough, you have omitted to include any math in your post.


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 Message 24 by IamJoseph, posted 08-25-2011 4:28 AM Dr Adequate has responded
 Message 44 by Tanus, posted 08-25-2011 12:33 PM Dr Adequate has responded

  
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 15987
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 4.0


Message 22 of 107 (630411)
08-25-2011 4:18 AM
Reply to: Message 19 by Tanus
08-25-2011 2:32 AM


As a first simple thought, those in our society are wealthy are probably being selected for ultimate success. The traits that make someone wealthy and produce children will most likely be selected for ...

But being wealthy is not a genetic trait. Wealth is inherited, to be sure, but not in one's DNA.


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Wounded King
Member (Idle past 1711 days)
Posts: 4149
From: Edinburgh, Scotland
Joined: 04-09-2003


Message 23 of 107 (630412)
08-25-2011 4:21 AM
Reply to: Message 20 by IamJoseph
08-25-2011 4:08 AM


Why has only one life form attained a higher brain and speech - the most powerful tools a life form can possess? This says a life form [species] follows its own kind, and is not fundamentally impacted by evolution but the directive program transmitted by the host parents.

In what way does it say that? As far as I can see it is a complete non sequitur. Unless you choose to completely ignore reality you can't escape the fact that the genetic 'program' passed from parents to offspring is modified and therefore susceptible to change and a suitable substrate for evolution.

I'd also question your criteria for saying that speech and a complex brain are the most powerful tools a life form can possess. It seems very anthropocentric, essentially saying 'What we do best must be the most important things, because we are the most important things". Going by most biological criteria for success, population size, rate of growth and adaptability many bacterial species, nematodes and probably some insect ones have us beat.

TTFN,

WK


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Replies to this message:
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IamJoseph
Member (Idle past 1285 days)
Posts: 2822
Joined: 06-30-2007


Message 24 of 107 (630413)
08-25-2011 4:28 AM
Reply to: Message 21 by Dr Adequate
08-25-2011 4:15 AM


quote:

In that case, perhaps you could clear up something that I wanted to ask one of you guys --- how in the world can you reconcile orthogenesis with adaptive radiation?


If you refer to what is described as a life form harbouring an inner force which makes it advance, which challenges natural selection [external environmental impacts]. Both appear fantastical and fail when the seed factor is considered. Regardless of any other proposed factor, the transmitted data from the host parents rules: try and evidence any case without it!

quote:

If evolution impacts all life - this impact is not the factor applying with humans. The math says so.

Curiously enough, you have omitted to include any math in your post.


Did you not notice the ratio factors given: all trillions of life forms VS 1? And the time factor as well? Here's another math busting factor for you:

An on-going prowess is not affected by time. We should see all life forms older than humans to be more advanced - but this is not the case. It is proof the host seed rules! These are the reasons I see great wisdom in Genesis - from a science, not theological, POV.

Edited by IamJoseph, : No reason given.


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 Message 21 by Dr Adequate, posted 08-25-2011 4:15 AM Dr Adequate has responded

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Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 15987
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 4.0


Message 25 of 107 (630414)
08-25-2011 4:36 AM
Reply to: Message 24 by IamJoseph
08-25-2011 4:28 AM


If you refer to what is described as a life form harbouring an inner force which makes it advance, which challenges natural selection [external environmental impacts]. Both appear fantastical and fail when the seed factor is considered. Regardless of any other proposed factor, the transmitted data from the host parents rules: try and evidence any case without it!

Please answer my question.

Did you not notice the ratio factors given: all trillions of life forms VS 1? And the time factor as well? Here's another math busting factor for you:

An on-going prowess is not affected by time. We should see all life forms older than humans to be more advanced - but this is not the case. It is proof the host seed rules! These are the reasons I see great wisdom in Genesis - from a science, not theological, POV.

So, no actual math then.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by IamJoseph, posted 08-25-2011 4:28 AM IamJoseph has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by IamJoseph, posted 08-25-2011 4:54 AM Dr Adequate has responded

  
IamJoseph
Member (Idle past 1285 days)
Posts: 2822
Joined: 06-30-2007


Message 26 of 107 (630415)
08-25-2011 4:45 AM
Reply to: Message 23 by Wounded King
08-25-2011 4:21 AM


quote:
In what way does it say that? As far as I can see it is a complete non sequitur. Unless you choose to completely ignore reality you can't escape the fact that the genetic 'program' passed from parents to offspring is modified and therefore susceptible to change and a suitable substrate for evolution.

Negative. There is in fact no modification whatsoever: the basic life form design remains: a life form [zebra] follows it own kind [zebra again] - the design of stripes do not constitute a modification but intellegence and wisdom of the system. Minutae variances like individual eye color and other tendacies defy your conclusion: these are factored in, with all such variations being internally processed via a permutation of odds covering billions of sperm and egg cells which determines these minor sub-set variations at what point they connect.

quote:
I'd also question your criteria for saying that speech and a complex brain are the most powerful tools a life form can possess. It seems very anthropocentric, essentially saying 'What we do best must be the most important things, because we are the most important things". Going by most biological criteria for success, population size, rate of growth and adaptability

I admit that what a mosquito or snake can do in its own situation is supreme, and a human in the exact same circumstances could not do better. This factor only says each life form group has a particular program which defies evolution's environmental impacts: the thing happens internally via a directive program! However, the criteria of all life forms following one set of rules applies to all trillions of life forms - while one specie differs fundamentally: they all perform best in their world but humans break this barrier. Consider the example which applies to speech: communication is common to all life; speech is limited to one. The factor of adaptability is thus blown away by a ratio of all VS 1.

You won't agree because evolution has become a fundamentlist religion!


This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by Wounded King, posted 08-25-2011 4:21 AM Wounded King has responded

Replies to this message:
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Larni
Member
Posts: 3952
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 27 of 107 (630416)
08-25-2011 4:46 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by frako
03-08-2011 11:03 AM


I think the question is what selection pressures are there on humans? Without birth control humans are pretty fecund and with access to medical care families get pretty large.

I'm finding it hard to think of something that is more significant than human ingenuity and use of technology in terms of successful reproduction.


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IamJoseph
Member (Idle past 1285 days)
Posts: 2822
Joined: 06-30-2007


Message 28 of 107 (630417)
08-25-2011 4:54 AM
Reply to: Message 25 by Dr Adequate
08-25-2011 4:36 AM


There's no reality behind adaptive radiation; this is just a neo doctored premise given to the variety of life forms., and disregards the directive program transmission. Why do you not see this happening everywhere now!? AR is calling all the different cars as externally created, while ignoring the car manual, car factory and the car maker.

I gave you many mathematical premises you choose to disregard.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by Dr Adequate, posted 08-25-2011 4:36 AM Dr Adequate has responded

Replies to this message:
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Wounded King
Member (Idle past 1711 days)
Posts: 4149
From: Edinburgh, Scotland
Joined: 04-09-2003


Message 29 of 107 (630418)
08-25-2011 4:57 AM
Reply to: Message 26 by IamJoseph
08-25-2011 4:45 AM


Negative. There is in fact no modification whatsoever

OK, you do choose to completely ignore reality, thanks for the confirmation.

This factor only says each life form group has a particular program which defies evolution's environmental impacts

Again, it doesn't say that at all, have you ever considered that you claiming something is not in fact anything like having evidence for that claim?

You won't agree because evolution has become a fundamentlist religion!

No, I won't agree because you are making an incoherent non-argument with no evidence to support it. Oh, and the completely ignoring reality thing as well.

TTFN,

WK


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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IamJoseph
Member (Idle past 1285 days)
Posts: 2822
Joined: 06-30-2007


Message 30 of 107 (630419)
08-25-2011 5:02 AM
Reply to: Message 29 by Wounded King
08-25-2011 4:57 AM


There is no modification. If one looks closely, they will find variances in their hand five seconds later or two zebras display different stripe designs: but they still remain hands and zebras. This is generically common: no two points in the universe are the same, not because of evolution but because the space and time is moving.

When will you guys get to the part what role a host tranmittance to the offspring plays - remember that teeny weeny factor!?


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