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Author Topic:   The Blind Watchmaker?
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 9 of 54 (451196)
01-26-2008 5:52 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by dogrelata
01-26-2008 12:43 PM


Hi Dogrelata.
The problems with your assessment of Paley are:
1. That the evolution of the models you've cited such as the watch and the automobile was effected all the way via accumulative ID via multitudes of intelligent designers working together to effect the alleged evolution of the complicated systems observed. None, nada of it was via natural selection.
2. The automobile (abe: wheeled vehicles) and the watch (abe: instruments of time) did not evolve. They were hand crafted/created all the way up from the simplest to the most complex by intelligent human inventors/designers/engineers/craftsmen/manufacturers.
Edited by Buzsaw, : as noted

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by dogrelata, posted 01-26-2008 12:43 PM dogrelata has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by dogrelata, posted 01-27-2008 3:26 AM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 26 of 54 (451527)
01-27-2008 10:57 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by dogrelata
01-27-2008 7:13 AM


Re: How smart is smart?
dogrelata writes:
.....but I’m not aware of any evidence that shows intelligence has the capability to conjure high levels of complex design from a ”standing start’.
That depends on what ID model is applied. Using the Biblical model the designer from which all the energy came and by which it exists has been eternally the same omniscient omnipotent being. This model satisfies the 1,2 and 3 LTD in that all energy existing now has always existed and has always been managed by design involving designer work.
Of course this model like every other model including BB and ToE has the problem of evidence. Then too, all models have major unknowns. The Biblical model has the unknown of how the designer could have existed eternally. For example the ToE and BB models have the problems of 1LoT as to where the BB energy came from and how abiogenesis came about.
Abe: Since William Paley's design model was Biblical you can't falsify his analogy and POV on designer inability.
If one argues then that the Biblical designer is not falsifyable another can argue that neither is the singularity or abiogenesis.
Edited by Buzsaw, : No reason given.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by dogrelata, posted 01-27-2008 7:13 AM dogrelata has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by jrodr036, posted 01-28-2008 12:07 AM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 30 by dogrelata, posted 01-28-2008 5:42 AM Buzsaw has replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 39 of 54 (451831)
01-28-2008 7:55 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by dogrelata
01-28-2008 5:42 AM


Re: Knowledge Gathering
dogrelata writes:
On what do they base these conclusions? Mostly loads of hard evidence gathered over many years of painstaking research. Does this evidence offer all the answers? Of course not. Is there still more to be learned? Of course there is. Will the conclusions that are reached when more evidence is gathered be the same as it is today? We have no idea.
There are no easy answers. A lot of very hard work has gone into gathering the knowledge we have today. A lot more still has to be done, along with very large helpings of patience and an acceptance that most of us will go to our graves knowing only a fraction of what we’d like to know.
But if the alternative is, “if it walks like a duck, if it quacks like a duck, then it’s a duck”, then I’m going to take the tough option every time.
But all of the above can be said of the Biblical model. It also involves gathering data, corroborating the evidences, exploration, logic, experience, observation of effects on cultures, etc.
As with your model, the unknown faith aspects of the varied hypotheses are supported by the corroborated evidences and gathered info. We've debated a few of these evidences in the threads over time and there's more. Our faith is by no means blind.
dogrelata writes:
nobody is allowed to point out the shortcomings or inconsistencies inherent within the inferences.
Not so. We debate these alledgements regularly in the threads.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by dogrelata, posted 01-28-2008 5:42 AM dogrelata has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 43 by dogrelata, posted 01-29-2008 7:32 AM Buzsaw has not replied

  
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