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Author Topic:   Evidence for Evolution: Whale evolution
Dredge
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Posts: 171
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 406 of 443 (804975)
04-14-2017 8:34 PM
Reply to: Message 404 by Tangle
04-14-2017 4:59 AM


This is a very impressive list ... of bogus Darwinists claims.  If you investigate each of these items you will find that they are either theoretical (with no practical application to living organisms) or are uses that would have been discovered if no one had ever heard of the theory of evolution.  None of them depend in any way on the belief/theory/"fact" that all life evolved from single-cell organism.

In other words, this list is just more mendacious bs from Darwinists and their irrelevant space-cadet biology (aka atheist theology). 

 You can't fool all of the people all of the time.


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Dr Adequate
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Posts: 15753
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 407 of 443 (804993)
04-14-2017 10:50 PM
Reply to: Message 406 by Dredge
04-14-2017 8:34 PM


Curious lies you told there.

I note that they are not about whales.


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Adminnemooseus
Director
Posts: 3764
Joined: 09-26-2002
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 408 of 443 (804996)
04-14-2017 11:20 PM


Topic is about whale evolution
The term "whale" is being rarely used, and when it is, it seems to be in the context that the discussion is off-topic.

Let's bring things back to things whale evolution, or this topic is going to go into summation mode.

Adminnemooseus


Or something like that©.

    
Percy
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Posts: 15560
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.3


Message 409 of 443 (805043)
04-15-2017 7:52 AM
Reply to: Message 405 by Dredge
04-14-2017 8:32 PM


Dredge writes:

Contrary to your claim, experiments with short-generation organisms such as bacteria have not proved that large changes over many generations are possible.

There is no limit to evolutionary change, as experiments with short-generation bacteria show. The longer the bacteria are followed the more change is observed. More generally, species evolve gradually into new species in response to adaptation pressures.

I'm not sure this is the right topic for you - you don't seem interested in the evidence for whale evolution.

--Percy


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Dredge
Member
Posts: 171
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 410 of 443 (805229)
04-16-2017 10:03 PM
Reply to: Message 409 by Percy
04-15-2017 7:52 AM


If I'm hearing you right, you are claiming that experiments which show changes in bacteria prove that there is "no limit to evolutionary change" and that therefore it is possible that whales evolved from some deer-like land animal.  Wow.  To you, this sort of reasoning is scientific?  

For starters, the changes observed in experiments with bacteria prove only that the observed changes in those bacteria are possible - nothing more.  So it is an absurdity to cite such changes as evidence for deer-to-whale evolution.  

So what evidence is left for this tale about whale evolution?  The fossil record, of course.  Or is there more?

Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.


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Replies to this message:
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Dr Adequate
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Posts: 15753
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 411 of 443 (805230)
04-16-2017 10:15 PM
Reply to: Message 410 by Dredge
04-16-2017 10:03 PM


For starters, the changes observed in experiments with bacteria prove only that the observed changes in those bacteria are possible - nothing more.

What a bizarrely antiscientific statement.

So what evidence is left for this tale about whale evolution? The fossil record, of course. Or is there more?

There's also genetics, morphology, and embryology.

A great deal has been written on these forums and elsewhere about whale evolution, did it ever occur to you to read it?


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Percy
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Posts: 15560
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.3


Message 412 of 443 (805273)
04-17-2017 7:41 AM
Reply to: Message 410 by Dredge
04-16-2017 10:03 PM


Dredge writes:

If I'm hearing you right, you are claiming that experiments which show changes in bacteria prove that there is "no limit to evolutionary change" and that therefore it is possible that whales evolved from some deer-like land animal.

Actually it's a rebuttal to your arguments that there are limits to evolutionary change, and that therefore species in general and whales in particular do not evolve from predecessor species. There are no genetic limits we're aware of to evolutionary change.

So what evidence is left for this tale about whale evolution? The fossil record, of course. Or is there more?

The fossil record is one of change over time. It records species change from Indoyus and Pakeicetus through intermediate species up to modern whales.

--Percy


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jar
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Posts: 28667
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 413 of 443 (805279)
04-17-2017 8:25 AM
Reply to: Message 412 by Percy
04-17-2017 7:41 AM


References describing the development of whale relationships to mammals
Percy writes:

The fossil record is one of change over time. It records species change from Indoyus and Pakeicetus through intermediate species up to modern whales.

A nice relatively short yet detailed summary of the state of whale fossil lineage from about ten years ago can be found here.

Also the Smithsonian has another relatively clear and well laid out description of the learning process the scientists went through including the advent of genetic evidence that can be found here.

Both articles show that the evidence developed over a long period of time as new discoveries were made yet every new discovery confirmed the hypothesis that whales descended from land dwelling mammals.

Edited by jar, : fix sub-title


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

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Dredge
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Posts: 171
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 414 of 443 (805331)
04-17-2017 8:49 PM
Reply to: Message 411 by Dr Adequate
04-16-2017 10:15 PM


You accuse me of being "antiscientific", so please explain how the changes observed in bacteria can be used as evidence that whales evolved from a deer-like animal.
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Replies to this message:
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Pressie
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Posts: 1561
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010
Member Rating: 2.0


Message 415 of 443 (805363)
04-18-2017 7:01 AM
Reply to: Message 414 by Dredge
04-17-2017 8:49 PM


Sure. I can. Changes in the inherited characteristics of populations occur frequently. In labs and in the field.

No species has ever been witnessed to be poofed into existence.


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Dr Adequate
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Posts: 15753
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 416 of 443 (805380)
04-18-2017 10:30 AM
Reply to: Message 414 by Dredge
04-17-2017 8:49 PM


You accuse me of being "antiscientific", so please explain how the changes observed in bacteria can be used as evidence that whales evolved from a deer-like animal.

I did not say that "the changes observed in bacteria can be used as evidence that whales evolved from a deer-like animal".

I said that the fossil record, genetics, morphology, and embryology could be used as evidence for that.

Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.


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Replies to this message:
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Dredge
Member
Posts: 171
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 417 of 443 (805514)
04-19-2017 2:33 AM
Reply to: Message 415 by Pressie
04-18-2017 7:01 AM


Pressie: "Changes in the inherited characteristics of populations occur frequently."

Going from observing small differences to claiming that the massive changes alleged in whale evolution is quite an extrapolation. How can you be certain that small observed changes mean unlimited change is possible? My nephew grew an inch taller in the last twelve months - does this mean he will grow one inch taller every year for the rest of his life?


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Dr Adequate
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Posts: 15753
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 3.1


(1)
Message 418 of 443 (805515)
04-19-2017 2:42 AM
Reply to: Message 417 by Dredge
04-19-2017 2:33 AM


How can you be certain that small observed changes mean unlimited change is possible?

An understanding of the underlying mechanisms. Together with the fact that there is no mechanism by which a lineage can keep count of how many mutations it's had and then have no more mutations after it hits a certain number.


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Dredge
Member
Posts: 171
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 419 of 443 (805516)
04-19-2017 2:44 AM
Reply to: Message 416 by Dr Adequate
04-18-2017 10:30 AM


But is it not true that scientists cite small observed changes in bacteria as evidence that unlimited change is possible, thus enabling whale evolution to be possible?

---------------------------

Embryology. Haeckel's fraudulent embryo charts are still cited in some textbooks to support the theory of evolution. Wow, that's disturbing. Darwinists love their snake-oil science.


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Replies to this message:
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Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 15753
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 420 of 443 (805521)
04-19-2017 3:24 AM
Reply to: Message 419 by Dredge
04-19-2017 2:44 AM


But is it not true that scientists cite small observed changes in bacteria as evidence that unlimited change is possible, thus enabling whale evolution to be possible?

Those observations are evidence suggesting that it's possible, but they are obviously not evidence that it happened. Those are two different questions. Lots of things are possible and don't happen. Which is why I didn't say that "the changes observed in bacteria can be used as evidence that whales evolved from a deer-like animal".

Embryology. Haeckel's fraudulent embryo charts are still cited in some textbooks to support the theory of evolution. Wow, that's disturbing. Darwinists love their snake-oil science.

In which textbooks? Or did you make that up?

Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.


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