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Author Topic:   Evidence for Evolution: Whale evolution
Tangle
Member
Posts: 5104
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 421 of 443 (805525)
04-19-2017 4:07 AM
Reply to: Message 419 by Dredge
04-19-2017 2:44 AM


Dredge writes:

But is it not true that scientists cite small observed changes in bacteria as evidence that unlimited change is possible, thus enabling whale evolution to be possible?

Darwin proposed the idea that species were not immutable before he knew the mechanism for how they could change. The ToE was developed mostly from fossil evidence.

Mutations are now part of story, they show how such change can happen - we now have modern day, observation based evidence of one of the mechanisms for change. Unfortunate for you though it is.

Embryology. Haeckel's fraudulent embryo charts are still cited in some textbooks to support the theory of evolution. Wow, that's disturbing. Darwinists love their snake-oil science.

Embryology shows how organisms develop from the first cells. It's provides an analogy for how life may have evolved. The fact that wale embryos develop limbs that are subsequently reabsorbed is further evidence of the origins of these species. What is your explanation?

This evidence does not rely on Haeckel. You really need to progress beyond the 19th century.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien.

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 419 by Dredge, posted 04-19-2017 2:44 AM Dredge has not yet responded

  
Pressie
Member
Posts: 1809
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 422 of 443 (805527)
04-19-2017 4:49 AM
Reply to: Message 417 by Dredge
04-19-2017 2:33 AM


Dredge writes:

Going from observing small differences to claiming that the massive changes alleged in whale evolution is quite an extrapolation. How can you be certain that small observed changes mean unlimited change is possible? My nephew grew an inch taller in the last twelve months - does this mean he will grow one inch taller every year for the rest of his life?

This is how.

dr Adequate writes:

An understanding of the underlying mechanisms.....

Study the mechanisms to try and understand them.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 417 by Dredge, posted 04-19-2017 2:33 AM Dredge has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 423 by Davidjay, posted 04-19-2017 8:14 AM Pressie has responded

    
Davidjay 
Suspended Member
Posts: 1026
From: B.C Canada
Joined: 11-05-2004


Message 423 of 443 (805541)
04-19-2017 8:14 AM
Reply to: Message 422 by Pressie
04-19-2017 4:49 AM


Dredge is right, wild extrapolations do not prove massive change.

Evolutionists excuse their wild theory by saying that those that dont agree with such fantasies, just dont understand the mechanism.

NO, evolutionists use semantics as their proofs. Micro-evolution or small variations are originated by the Lord at creation. Its variability or the spice of life variation that makes us slightly different in minor, make no difference appearances etc. BUT WE ARE STILL HUMANS, even if one is taller, different color, different minor characteristic.

Insane evolutionists call this micro evolution a total LIE, and then suggest MAJOR CHANGES must be possible as well.

Its ludicrous and unscientific, but then again it is a desperate ploy of evolutionists to try to have some credability.

NO whale spouts didnt evolve, when an underwater fish decided to become a mammal, to brethe aitr, and then figured out he better wait a few million years for the spout to be mutated nicely on the top of his head.

Evolution is a religion and not science.


.
The Lord is the GREAT SCIENTIST as He created SCIENCE and ALL LAWS and ALL MATTER and of course ALL LIFE. God is the Great Architect, Designer and Mathematician. Evolutioon is not mathematical and says there is no DESIGN but that all things came about by sheer LUCK.

.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 422 by Pressie, posted 04-19-2017 4:49 AM Pressie has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 424 by Pressie, posted 04-19-2017 8:22 AM Davidjay has responded
 Message 427 by Dredge, posted 04-20-2017 1:20 AM Davidjay has responded
 Message 435 by Dredge, posted 04-20-2017 11:02 PM Davidjay has not yet responded

    
Pressie
Member
Posts: 1809
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 424 of 443 (805543)
04-19-2017 8:22 AM
Reply to: Message 423 by Davidjay
04-19-2017 8:14 AM


You like word salads.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 423 by Davidjay, posted 04-19-2017 8:14 AM Davidjay has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 425 by Davidjay, posted 04-19-2017 8:30 AM Pressie has not yet responded

    
Davidjay 
Suspended Member
Posts: 1026
From: B.C Canada
Joined: 11-05-2004


Message 425 of 443 (805547)
04-19-2017 8:30 AM
Reply to: Message 424 by Pressie
04-19-2017 8:22 AM


I hate word salads and semantics, I like FACTS and MATH
No, Pressie, you evolutionists are word salad people. I like meat and potatos, or better yet rice and fish.

You evolutionists love word changes, and changing definitions, and semantics and word intimidations.

I like truths, and laws, and facts and math.

Jesus therefore wins again, and your quesses and theories and word games fail again.

(We must discuss your god of Selection on a new thread, just start it and I will finnish off your god)


.
The Lord is the GREAT SCIENTIST as He created SCIENCE and ALL LAWS and ALL MATTER and of course ALL LIFE. God is the Great Architect, Designer and Mathematician. Evolutioon is not mathematical and says there is no DESIGN but that all things came about by sheer LUCK.

.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 424 by Pressie, posted 04-19-2017 8:22 AM Pressie has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 426 by Diomedes, posted 04-19-2017 9:47 AM Davidjay has not yet responded

    
Diomedes
Member
Posts: 664
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013
Member Rating: 3.9


(3)
Message 426 of 443 (805566)
04-19-2017 9:47 AM
Reply to: Message 425 by Davidjay
04-19-2017 8:30 AM


Re: I hate word salads and semantics, I like FACTS and MATH
I hate word salads and semantics, I like FACTS and MATH

Then you must be a masochist since you are inflicting that on yourself.

I like truths, and laws, and facts and math.

Yet we have seen none of those things in your posts. Odd.

Jesus therefore wins again, and your quesses and theories and word games fail again.

Actually, just to help you along, I have been keeping score. Currently, it is 37 for the evolution side and 0 for you. Also, 'quesses' is not a word. Although it does show up in the urban dictionary:

quote:
quess
A child who was locked in the basement for 20 years with only math textbooks' way of spelling the word 'guess'.

Is that you?? Although I would think that being locked in a basement with only math textbooks would have at least made you good at math.

We must discuss your god of Selection on a new thread, just start it and I will finnish off your god

Our god is Finnish? Well damn!

Well I'm all for that. Those gods look bad-ass!!

Evolution OWNS. Creationism groans.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 425 by Davidjay, posted 04-19-2017 8:30 AM Davidjay has not yet responded

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 605
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 427 of 443 (805656)
04-20-2017 1:20 AM
Reply to: Message 423 by Davidjay
04-19-2017 8:14 AM


Recently I had a bizarre conversation with my chiropractor, who believes in evolution. I asked her, "Considering the fact that humans are running the 100 faster and faster, can the prediction be made that the current world record will be broken?" She said, "Of course it can; there is no limit to how fast humans can run, because there is no limit to evolution.". This was her idea of being scientific.

The truth is, despite the fact that humans have been running the 100 meters faster and faster, one cannot predict with certainty that the current world record will be broken. It may happen, it may not. No one knows. To predict that it will certainly be broken is to make an irrational assumption and an unscientific extrapolation ... to further claim that there is no limit to how fast evolution will allow humans to run is something out of La La Land.
Irrational assumptions and unscientific extrapolations of this nature are part of the staple diet of the Darwinist mentality. And they call it science!

Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 423 by Davidjay, posted 04-19-2017 8:14 AM Davidjay has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 428 by Tangle, posted 04-20-2017 3:14 AM Dredge has not yet responded
 Message 429 by Pressie, posted 04-20-2017 5:35 AM Dredge has responded
 Message 430 by Davidjay, posted 04-20-2017 9:42 AM Dredge has not yet responded
 Message 432 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-20-2017 9:47 AM Dredge has responded

    
Tangle
Member
Posts: 5104
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.2


(1)
Message 428 of 443 (805672)
04-20-2017 3:14 AM
Reply to: Message 427 by Dredge
04-20-2017 1:20 AM


Dredge writes:

And they call it science!

If by 'they' you mean scientists, then no they don't. This is just ill-informed chatter. People who haven't studied the ToE have all sorts of misconceptions about it as you prove with every post. This is just another one.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien.

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 427 by Dredge, posted 04-20-2017 1:20 AM Dredge has not yet responded

  
Pressie
Member
Posts: 1809
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 429 of 443 (805677)
04-20-2017 5:35 AM
Reply to: Message 427 by Dredge
04-20-2017 1:20 AM


This one is funny.

Dredge writes:

Recently I had a bizarre conversation with my chiropractor, who believes in evolution...

I think you made that one up. Scientific theories are not believed.

I don't believe in any scientific theory. I accept the findings of the hundreds of thousands of specialists on a subject, from all over the world, following scientific methods, to likely be relatively accurate in explaining reality.

It works very well in the field I'm in. Exploration and mining companies are pretty accurate in what they will find underground.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 427 by Dredge, posted 04-20-2017 1:20 AM Dredge has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 433 by Dredge, posted 04-20-2017 10:50 PM Pressie has not yet responded

    
Davidjay 
Suspended Member
Posts: 1026
From: B.C Canada
Joined: 11-05-2004


(2)
Message 430 of 443 (805708)
04-20-2017 9:42 AM
Reply to: Message 427 by Dredge
04-20-2017 1:20 AM


As a former athelete, I can agree with you, on the second point DREDGE.

But Yes, statistically you can predict that the world record of most track events can be broken.... microscopically in the future. Better
nutrition, more training, cross breeding atheletes together at the international events (I didnt mind that one). But is their a limit, absolutely.... bone structure etc etc etc... is a branch of physics when compared with weight and gravity. I studied that long ago, the Lord made limits to our human body, just as aging brings on decay.

Yes evolutionists extrapolations can be absolutely non sensical and totally unscientific, but new records have an ultimate limit.

I hated when I approached the bar, and found it at eyelevel rather than me looking down at the high jump bar.

Im 6'4"


.
The Lord is the GREAT SCIENTIST as He created SCIENCE and ALL LAWS and ALL MATTER and of course ALL LIFE. God is the Great Architect, Designer and Mathematician. Evolutioon is not mathematical and says there is no DESIGN but that all things came about by sheer LUCK.

.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 427 by Dredge, posted 04-20-2017 1:20 AM Dredge has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 431 by Davidjay, posted 04-20-2017 9:44 AM Davidjay has not yet responded

    
Davidjay 
Suspended Member
Posts: 1026
From: B.C Canada
Joined: 11-05-2004


Message 431 of 443 (805710)
04-20-2017 9:44 AM
Reply to: Message 430 by Davidjay
04-20-2017 9:42 AM


Pst... evolutionists can not even get off the ground !

.
The Lord is the GREAT SCIENTIST as He created SCIENCE and ALL LAWS and ALL MATTER and of course ALL LIFE. God is the Great Architect, Designer and Mathematician. Evolutioon is not mathematical and says there is no DESIGN but that all things came about by sheer LUCK.

.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 430 by Davidjay, posted 04-20-2017 9:42 AM Davidjay has not yet responded

    
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 15963
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 432 of 443 (805712)
04-20-2017 9:47 AM
Reply to: Message 427 by Dredge
04-20-2017 1:20 AM


Recently I had a bizarre conversation with my chiropractor, who believes in evolution. I asked her, "Considering the fact that humans are running the 100 faster and faster, can the prediction be made that the current world record will be broken?" She said, "Of course it can; there is no limit to how fast humans can run, because there is no limit to evolution.". This was her idea of being scientific.

The truth is, despite the fact that humans have been running the 100 meters faster and faster, one cannot predict with certainty that the current world record will be broken. It may happen, it may not. No one knows. To predict that it will certainly be broken is to make an irrational assumption and an unscientific extrapolation ... to further claim that there is no limit to how fast evolution will allow humans to run is something out of La La Land.
Irrational assumptions and unscientific extrapolations of this nature are part of the staple diet of the Darwinist mentality. And they call it science!

I note that your silly childish ramblings have nothing to do with whales.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 427 by Dredge, posted 04-20-2017 1:20 AM Dredge has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 436 by Dredge, posted 04-20-2017 11:07 PM Dr Adequate has not yet responded

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 605
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 433 of 443 (805816)
04-20-2017 10:50 PM
Reply to: Message 429 by Pressie
04-20-2017 5:35 AM


Pressie: "I think you made that one up".

If you consider it a fact that all life evolved from a common ancestor, how is that not a belief?

Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 429 by Pressie, posted 04-20-2017 5:35 AM Pressie has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 434 by Coyote, posted 04-20-2017 10:57 PM Dredge has not yet responded

    
Coyote
Member
Posts: 6016
Joined: 01-12-2008
Member Rating: 2.3


(1)
Message 434 of 443 (805818)
04-20-2017 10:57 PM
Reply to: Message 433 by Dredge
04-20-2017 10:50 PM


Belief vs. facts
If you think it's a fact that all life evolved from a common ancestor, how is that not a belief?

From a piece I put together a while back:

Fact: when an observation is confirmed repeatedly and by many independent and competent observers, it can become a fact.

Belief: the state of mind in which a person thinks something to be the case, with or without there being empirical evidence to prove that something is the case with factual certainty.

Beliefs do not require evidence, facts require repeated confirmation. Big difference!


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein

In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool

It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle

If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1

"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.

Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 433 by Dredge, posted 04-20-2017 10:50 PM Dredge has not yet responded

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 605
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 435 of 443 (805819)
04-20-2017 11:02 PM
Reply to: Message 423 by Davidjay
04-19-2017 8:14 AM


Davidjay: "It's ludicrous and unscientific ... "

Pierre-P. Grasse, professor of zoology and member of Academie des sciences (France):
"(Evolutionary) Biologists must be encouraged to think about the weaknesses of the interpretations and extrapolations that theoreticians put forward or lay down as established truths.  The deceit is sometimes unconscious, but not always, as some people, owing to their sectarianism, purposefully overlook reality and refuse to acknowledge the inadequacies and the falsity of their beliefs."


This message is a reply to:
 Message 423 by Davidjay, posted 04-19-2017 8:14 AM Davidjay has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
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