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Author Topic:   Executive Pay - Good Capitalism Bad Capitalism?
ringo
Member (Idle past 402 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 20 of 135 (746713)
01-09-2015 11:34 AM
Reply to: Message 17 by New Cat's Eye
01-09-2015 10:33 AM


Re: What someone gets vs what they earn
Cat's Eye writes:
From the company's perspective, its how much they contribute to the bottom line.
That's too simplistic. I don't contribute anything directly to the bottom line; I just make a more pleasant environment for the people who do. And they could hire somebody for half what they pay me.
So how do you determine what I "should" be paid?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-09-2015 10:33 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-09-2015 12:06 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 402 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 23 of 135 (746730)
01-09-2015 12:10 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by New Cat's Eye
01-09-2015 12:06 PM


Re: What someone gets vs what they earn
Cat's Eye writes:
The actual contribution to the bottom line is too complicated to calculate.
So the company just offers a wage that they know is less than the contribution they figure.
So it's arbitrary.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-09-2015 12:06 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-09-2015 12:53 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 402 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 33 of 135 (746845)
01-10-2015 10:42 AM
Reply to: Message 26 by New Cat's Eye
01-09-2015 12:53 PM


Re: What someone gets vs what they earn
Cat's Eye writes:
ringo writes:
So it's arbitrary.
Not at all.
Why not?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-09-2015 12:53 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 35 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-10-2015 12:48 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 402 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 36 of 135 (747004)
01-11-2015 1:16 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by New Cat's Eye
01-10-2015 12:48 PM


Re: What someone gets vs what they earn
Cat's Eye writes:
Because its based on something rather than nothing.
But you said that that "something" is too complicated to calculate. Granted that something is more than nothing but any particular something - such as the actual dollars-and-cents amount on your paycheck - is chosen more-or-less arbitrarily, because your actual contribution is too complicated to calculate.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-10-2015 12:48 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 402 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 50 of 135 (824625)
12-01-2017 11:05 AM
Reply to: Message 49 by NoNukes
12-01-2017 7:23 AM


Re: What someone gets vs what they earn
NoNukes writes:
That still does not explain how we can call someone a thief or an exploiter if he is paid what someone considers to be too much for is his labor.
It all comes down to ownership, which in itself is a feudal term. The individual "owns" what he can grab. What the little guy grabs is grabbed away from him by the big guy. The big guy "owns" it because he had the power to grab it.
What people "deserve" is what they need, not what they can grab.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by NoNukes, posted 12-01-2017 7:23 AM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 51 by Phat, posted 12-01-2017 12:18 PM ringo has replied
 Message 55 by NoNukes, posted 12-01-2017 1:49 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 402 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 52 of 135 (824628)
12-01-2017 12:26 PM
Reply to: Message 51 by Phat
12-01-2017 12:18 PM


Re: What someone gets vs what they earn
Phat writes:
But who determines what you need?
In Canada we get a "basic exemption" on our income tax. That's an attempt to determine what we need. We also have a "poverty line". That's another attempt to determine what we need.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by Phat, posted 12-01-2017 12:18 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 402 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 71 of 135 (824685)
12-02-2017 10:43 AM
Reply to: Message 55 by NoNukes
12-01-2017 1:49 PM


Re: What someone gets vs what they earn
NoNukes writes:
Using your definition, no matter how many hours I work, I "deserve" only that which I need.
I don't think I said you should be limited to what you need. That's the minimum that you "deserve".
NoNukes writes:
The idea that you don't even own, let alone value your own or labor, which is inherent in the position you are pushing....
You couldn't have got farther from my position if you worked at it 25 hours a day.
Of course you own your labour. What you don't own is an infinite amount of resources in exchange for your labour. Even if people are willing to pay, you don't "deserve" more. There ought to be a better way than hoarding to recognize exceptional contributions.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 55 by NoNukes, posted 12-01-2017 1:49 PM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 72 by NoNukes, posted 12-02-2017 2:03 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 402 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 89 of 135 (824763)
12-03-2017 1:09 PM
Reply to: Message 85 by Tangle
12-02-2017 6:59 PM


Re: What someone gets vs what they earn vs what they are worth
Tangle writes:
If you have higher costs than your competitors, how can you sell more widgets than them?
Customer service.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 85 by Tangle, posted 12-02-2017 6:59 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 90 by Tangle, posted 12-03-2017 2:01 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 402 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 91 of 135 (824772)
12-03-2017 2:04 PM
Reply to: Message 90 by Tangle
12-03-2017 2:01 PM


Re: What someone gets vs what they earn vs what they are worth
Tangle writes:
But if your costs are higher than your competitors and he's doing the same you either take less profit or have higher prices.
Sure. You charge higher prices for better service. You pay your workers better to provide better service. It's a vicious circle.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 90 by Tangle, posted 12-03-2017 2:01 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 92 by Tangle, posted 12-03-2017 2:39 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 402 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 93 of 135 (824774)
12-03-2017 2:58 PM
Reply to: Message 92 by Tangle
12-03-2017 2:39 PM


Re: What someone gets vs what they earn vs what they are worth
Tangle writes:
People will tell you all sorts of things about being prepared to spend a bit more for great service but the majority will then go out and buy the cheapest.
If that was true, there wouldn't be anybody providing better customer service.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 92 by Tangle, posted 12-03-2017 2:39 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 94 by Tangle, posted 12-03-2017 4:06 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 402 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 103 of 135 (824840)
12-04-2017 10:42 AM
Reply to: Message 94 by Tangle
12-03-2017 4:06 PM


Re: What someone gets vs what they earn vs what they are worth
Tangle writes:
But it doesn't mean that no-one would specialise in a niche where customer service matters.
You said:
quote:
If you have higher costs than your competitors, how can you sell more widgets than them? Message 85
and I replied:
quote:
Customer service. Message 89
You could have just agreed with me from the start.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 94 by Tangle, posted 12-03-2017 4:06 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 104 by Tangle, posted 12-04-2017 10:46 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 402 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 105 of 135 (824843)
12-04-2017 10:48 AM
Reply to: Message 104 by Tangle
12-04-2017 10:46 AM


Re: What someone gets vs what they earn vs what they are worth
Tangle writes:
But then I'd have been wrong too.
Since you're (now) saying the same thing I said, no.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 104 by Tangle, posted 12-04-2017 10:46 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 108 by Tangle, posted 12-04-2017 11:21 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 402 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 109 of 135 (824857)
12-04-2017 11:28 AM
Reply to: Message 108 by Tangle
12-04-2017 11:21 AM


Re: What someone gets vs what they earn vs what they are worth
Tangle writes:
You said
If that was true, there wouldn't be anybody providing better customer service.
And you agreed that there are businesses providing better customer service. That's all I'm saying.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 108 by Tangle, posted 12-04-2017 11:21 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 110 by Tangle, posted 12-04-2017 11:31 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 402 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 111 of 135 (824862)
12-04-2017 11:49 AM
Reply to: Message 110 by Tangle
12-04-2017 11:31 AM


Re: What someone gets vs what they earn vs what they are worth
Tangle writes:
Sky is blue, water is wet.....
Indeed, so you can stop pretending that I'm wrong.
Edited by ringo, : Speling.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 110 by Tangle, posted 12-04-2017 11:31 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 114 by Tangle, posted 12-04-2017 12:06 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 402 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 115 of 135 (824867)
12-04-2017 12:11 PM
Reply to: Message 114 by Tangle
12-04-2017 12:06 PM


Re: What someone gets vs what they earn vs what they are worth
Tangle writes:
This..
quote:
If that was true [that the majority will buy the cheapest product or service], there wouldn't be anybody providing better customer service.
...is wrong.
And yet you agreed with it in Message 94: "But it doesn't mean that no-one would specialise in a niche where customer service matters."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 114 by Tangle, posted 12-04-2017 12:06 PM Tangle has not replied

  
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