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Author Topic:   Un-conversion
Kairyu
Member
Posts: 162
From: netherlands
Joined: 06-23-2010


Message 5 of 76 (658606)
04-07-2012 2:59 AM


This is also one of the main reasons I stopped believing, and also why the personal God argument turned sour. Only that it wasn't just a feeling nothing was there stopping me drifting away, rather God didn't really stop my major religious mental problems, like obessive compulsive diseases. Although I've had some feelings... but they didn't always occur at logical moments, and I even had them in the midst of some OCD periods. My view of God was rather unstable as well, also depending on what I had been exposed to lately, and my mood, ranging the very gentle view of God I've been brought up with, or the more orthodox God who is angry with humanity and at me.. there was no good constant to it.
So, as a result, I'm rather convinced He doesn't exist, and if He does... then why was I left alone with my mental delusions so many times? It was so bad I later in the deconversion process, I was actively trying to work towards it as much as the compulsive remainds of my faith allowed.

  
Kairyu
Member
Posts: 162
From: netherlands
Joined: 06-23-2010


Message 59 of 76 (658726)
04-09-2012 4:30 AM


Planting?
I might add that humanity's 'golden rule hardwiring'' has some.. limitations, that speak against divine orgin. It's presence seems to vary among humans af far I'm aware, and this literally concerns everyone(and their morality!). Not to mention, as noted, it can be absent entirely. This is troubling for the notion God planted this, as it's plainly not a even constant. It also causes problems for soul/body dualism, but that's off topic.
The second point is humanity's other major hardwiring: thinking in groups. Although some people might do not have this as strongly as others, it's well known that people tend to apply the golden rule to their own group, but not others. This especially becomes a problem if somebody invokes this effect. This includes Nazi-germany of course, but it's still often used in nationalistic thinking. And there also a well known experiment done by a teacher, that some of you might already know: the third wave movement. By invoking group culture in his class, before long, group effects not unlike those in Nazi-germany started to surface. I did just look it up, but it grew from 30 to 200 in just 4 days, and the teacher cut it off out of fear it would spiral out of his control. Did God plant those dangerous group mechanics on purpose as well? Strong enough for a history teacher to easily mold a student movement that felt better then the rest?
I'm skeptical on the notion of God being the designer of our psyche because of these two factors. You can't examine human qualities unless you're willing to look at the entire picture.

Replies to this message:
 Message 63 by GDR, posted 04-09-2012 2:58 PM Kairyu has replied

  
Kairyu
Member
Posts: 162
From: netherlands
Joined: 06-23-2010


Message 74 of 76 (658793)
04-09-2012 4:10 PM
Reply to: Message 63 by GDR
04-09-2012 2:58 PM


Re: Planting?
Actually, I think your well made point actually leans towards there being an intelligent moral first cause. If morality evolved from a non-intelligent non-moral first cause I would expect there to be a consistent result within humanity. If however our morality is the result of an intelligent moral first cause who has given us the ability to choose between the common interest and self interest then what we see in the world is entirely what I would expect.
I've got some objections against this... You see, Christian morality relies on this free choice, but recent developments in neurology have show that morality is heavily influenced by genes, development in the womb, and early upbringing. Some people end up being more selfish then others as a result. It's still possible to change , but that there is natural inequality in moral ''talent'' is pretty much proven right now. This is not a good thing, I know, but reality is harsh.. Unless you're got right genes, development as a fetus didn't run into trouble(Don't smoke mom!), and you got a stable upbringing.
Still, we should never give up on a person, nor accept immorality, and it should also be noted most humans are naturally inclined to not accept this, although that actual degree does vary a bit as well, people can even be hypocrites about it.
Edited by Kairyu, : No reason given.
Edited by Kairyu, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 63 by GDR, posted 04-09-2012 2:58 PM GDR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 76 by GDR, posted 04-09-2012 4:33 PM Kairyu has not replied

  
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