EvC Forum: Does exorcism work?

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Topic: Does exorcism work?

DevilsAdvocate

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Joined: 06-05-2008

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Message 1 of 57 (493937)
01-11-2009 8:17 PM

I had a discussion with John 10:10 about the validity of exorcism as discussed here: Message 44.

I proposed a case study as shown below:

Myself writes:

It would be interesting to see some type of case study in which two groups are given separate therapeutic treatments. Let's say 15 people all afflicted with the same condition, say heroine addiction. One group is given professional drug counseling and medicine and the other group of 15 are strictly treated with exorcism by three expert Christian exorcists. Both treatments are administer for 12 months. Then lets compare the two groups.

Questions I would like to be answered in this discussionare:

1. Is this a valid case study?,
2. Has this type of study been conducted before? And if so what were the results, and
3. Is exorcism a valid therapeutic treatment for treating mental and physical illnesses? Why or why not?

Ground rules:

1. This is not a discussion of why belief in Christianity (or any other religious belief) is right or wrong. It is strictly a discussion of whether exorcism really works or not.
2. This is not a discussion for or against the existence of demons, this is discussed here: Message 1.
3. Citing Bible scripture (or any other unsubstantiated religious scripture) is not valid evidence.
4. Keep on topic and be honest.
5. Provide logically sound and coherent arguments. No circular reasoning or resorting to logical fallacies.
6. Provide substantiated empirical evidence for or against.
7. Be polite, no ad hominum attacks.

Any psychology or psychiatry majors or professionals are highly encouraged to participate.

Thanks for participating in my first proposed topic.

Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given.

For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
Dr. Carl Sagan

Replies to this message:
	Message 3 by Rrhain, posted 01-12-2009 1:41 AM	DevilsAdvocate has replied
	Message 8 by frako, posted 11-26-2011 6:02 AM	DevilsAdvocate has not replied
	Message 9 by Buzsaw, posted 11-26-2011 5:24 PM	DevilsAdvocate has not replied
	Message 19 by Trixie, posted 11-27-2011 5:22 AM	DevilsAdvocate has not replied

DevilsAdvocate

Member (Idle past 3131 days)

Posts: 1548

Joined: 06-05-2008

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Message 4 of 57 (493984)
01-12-2009 11:23 AM

Reply to: Message 3 by Rrhain
01-12-2009 1:41 AM

If I recall, there have been times when "exorcism" has been used in treating mental illness. The rationalization is that the patient is under extreme delusion of being possessed and an exorcism will help to have the patient work with the rest of treatment: Since the "demons" have been cleansed, the patient can focus on everything else that needs to be taken care of.

It is controversial and rare since it is specifically feeding into the patient's neurosis. Too, the clergy involved would be practicing outside of most normal channels: Exorcism is not to be used for a "placebo effect."

Thanks Rrhain,

I agree with your assesment that exorcism feed into the patients nuerosis. It is seems that in many of these cases, people are built up into such a fanatic, frenzied state that it paves the way for the local witch doctor/shaman/exorcist to come in and miraculously "heal" the "demon possessed" person.

Has anyone either seen or heard about a case of demon possession/exorcism and if so what was the end result? Youtube videos don't really count since we only get a 5-10 minute snapshot of the event. I would like to know the whole background behind these stories.

Having taken college psychology, sociology and anthropology classes I find this area of the human experience facinating and worth exploring.

With regard to your experiment, no legitimate clergy would agree to it: An exorcism would only be called for in cases of real suspected possession. How would you go about finding candidates? And if they were considered "legitimate" by the clergy, how would you convince them that the ones in the control group are in good hands when they are being plagued by demons?

That makes sense. I guess it wouldn't work then.

Rrhain writes:

Myself writes:

Let's say 15 people all afflicted with the same condition, say heroine addiction.

You mean like having an unnatural fixation on Wonder Woman?

ROTFLMAO. Now that's funny. Here's my sign!

For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
Dr. Carl Sagan

This message is a reply to:
	Message 3 by Rrhain, posted 01-12-2009 1:41 AM		Rrhain has not replied

DevilsAdvocate

Member (Idle past 3131 days)

Posts: 1548

Joined: 06-05-2008

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Message 6 of 57 (494017)
01-12-2009 2:24 PM

Reply to: Message 5 by Brian
01-12-2009 11:32 AM

What might be interesting is if someone (say an atheist) posed as a priest and carried out an exorcism and the patient was freed from their demons.

I guess this would be considered an exorcism placebo effect!

For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
Dr. Carl Sagan

This message is a reply to:
	Message 5 by Brian, posted 01-12-2009 11:32 AM		Brian has not replied

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