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Author Topic:   Religious Right and Evangelicals
macaroniandcheese 
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Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 1 of 50 (334350)
07-22-2006 6:34 PM


inconsistency and false gospel?
Evangelical: Religious Right Has Distorted the Faith : NPR
on the book Thy Kingdom Come: How the Religious Right Distorts the Faith and Threatens America: An Evangelical's Lament
read, listen, consider. then, discuss carefully.
if you have read the book, i'd love to hear your opinion.
i have not read it, but i would like to. i like what he says about "insufficiently pro-life". whether i personally hold said beliefs, i have always found the religious right to be inconsistent in their claims and their actual alliegences. further, i have found their political beliefs to be inconsistent with the commands of scripture. above all, christ command love and forgiveness and mercy and meekness. the religious right demonstrates none of these in their politics which are made up of "this is the unutterably evil thing we're railing against today".
there is a difference between seeking righteousness and seeking to be right. i feel there is too much of the latter.
i have always known that evangelicals did not start out opposed to abortion. the church very much supported legalization. and then they changed their minds. i'm all about people being able to change their minds, but to later lie about it is bad form.
social issues i suppose. those topic subject lines are really vague..
it could be coffee house, but i know how this will go.
Edited by brennakimi, : edited just before move. move didn't keep the edit.
Edited by brennakimi, : No reason given.

Replies to this message:
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 Message 12 by jar, posted 07-23-2006 10:02 PM macaroniandcheese has replied
 Message 19 by randman, posted 07-30-2006 5:12 PM macaroniandcheese has replied

  
macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3958 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 4 of 50 (334544)
07-23-2006 3:53 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by Discreet Label
07-23-2006 3:45 PM


Re: inconsistency and false gospel?
i may be mistaken, but i thought creationism (tm) was newer than that.
i think it's that they realized how much they could be effected if the government stopped treating christians differently from everyone else. i think this terrified them that they might lose some political power as well. so they had to mobilize and fast. then they snowballed (both ways) and picked up more issues tha would gve the church (tm) more clout.
i'm not really sure what i'm interested in discussing, either. i certainly don't want to get into a "true christian" fight about politics (again).
Edited by brennakimi, : No reason given.

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macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3958 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 6 of 50 (334547)
07-23-2006 4:05 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Discreet Label
07-23-2006 3:59 PM


Re: inconsistency and false gospel?
i see.
yeah scopes, i guess i just didn't think about that.

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macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3958 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 9 of 50 (334637)
07-23-2006 8:43 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by RAZD
07-23-2006 5:57 PM


Re: inconsistency and false gospel?
i really do believe that the biggest problem with american christianity is the radical retrograde political movement and not really american church people. they are, i suppose, more impressionable than most, but they are being inspired of some horrible leaders.
i hate to bring on the wrath of the internet, but we all know that large numbers of people can very easily fall prey to radical retrograde political movements and do horrible awful things as a result of following a line of thought that begins very simply and continues into more tenuous areas based on "party loyalty".

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macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3958 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 11 of 50 (334651)
07-23-2006 9:19 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by RAZD
07-23-2006 9:03 PM


Re: inconsistency and false gospel?
precisely. all you have to say is that the "other side" is part of a "global conspiracy" to "destroy" your "nation and way of life" and you can get people to support anything. works EVERY TIME.
Edited by brennakimi, : No reason given.

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macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3958 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 13 of 50 (334662)
07-23-2006 10:04 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by jar
07-23-2006 10:02 PM


Re: inconsistency and false gospel?
that's what he says it was all about.
read more carefully.
Edited by brennakimi, : No reason given.

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macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3958 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 15 of 50 (334670)
07-23-2006 10:34 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by jar
07-23-2006 10:24 PM


Re: inconsistency and false gospel?
ok
we were just discussing i suppose the more recent developments.
the good thing though, is that many have moved past the ivorysoap mentality. let me paint a picture though. in pensacola we have hicks, rednecks, and then more or less everyone else. rednecks are smarter than hicks but dumber than everyone else. but. hicks are better people. rednecks are racist. hicks are not. we decided it must be because the hicks are too stupid to see any differences while racists are smart enough to see differences but not smart enough to know that that doesn't make black people not people.
so i guess i'm scared that it will get worse before it gets better.

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macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3958 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 16 of 50 (336632)
07-30-2006 1:23 PM


Evangelical Pastor Boyd disowns religious political activism
sroty quoted below
MAPLEWOOD, Minn. ” Like most pastors who lead thriving evangelical megachurches, the Rev. Gregory A. Boyd was asked frequently to give his blessing ” and the church’s ” to conservative political candidates and causes.
The Rev. Gregory A. Boyd leads a congregation outside St. Paul.
The requests came from church members and visitors alike: Would he please announce a rally against gay marriage during services? Would he introduce a politician from the pulpit? Could members set up a table in the lobby promoting their anti-abortion work? Would the church distribute “voters’ guides” that all but endorsed Republican candidates? And with the country at war, please couldn’t the church hang an American flag in the sanctuary?
After refusing each time, Mr. Boyd finally became fed up, he said. Before the last presidential election, he preached six sermons called “The Cross and the Sword” in which he said the church should steer clear of politics, give up moralizing on sexual issues, stop claiming the United States as a “Christian nation” and stop glorifying American military campaigns.
“When the church wins the culture wars, it inevitably loses,” Mr. Boyd preached. “When it conquers the world, it becomes the world. When you put your trust in the sword, you lose the cross.”
Mr. Boyd says he is no liberal. He is opposed to abortion and thinks homosexuality is not God’s ideal. The response from his congregation at Woodland Hills Church here in suburban St. Paul ” packed mostly with politically and theologically conservative, middle-class evangelicals ” was passionate. Some members walked out of a sermon and never returned. By the time the dust had settled, Woodland Hills, which Mr. Boyd founded in 1992, had lost about 1,000 of its 5,000 members.
.....
Mr. Boyd said he never intended his sermons to be taken as merely a critique of the Republican Party or the religious right. He refuses to share his party affiliation, or whether he has one, for that reason. He said there were Christians on both the left and the right who had turned politics and patriotism into “idolatry.”
He said he first became alarmed while visiting another megachurch’s worship service on a Fourth of July years ago. The service finished with the chorus singing “God Bless America” and a video of fighter jets flying over a hill silhouetted with crosses.
“I thought to myself, ”What just happened? Fighter jets mixed up with the cross?’ ” he said in an interview.
Patriotic displays are still a mainstay in some evangelical churches. Across town from Mr. Boyd’s church, the sanctuary of North Heights Lutheran Church was draped in bunting on the Sunday before the Fourth of July this year for a “freedom celebration.” Military veterans and flag twirlers paraded into the sanctuary, an enormous American flag rose slowly behind the stage, and a Marine major who had served in Afghanistan preached that the military was spending “your hard-earned money” on good causes.
In his six sermons, Mr. Boyd laid out a broad argument that the role of Christians was not to seek “power over” others ” by controlling governments, passing legislation or fighting wars. Christians should instead seek to have “power under” others ” “winning people’s hearts” by sacrificing for those in need, as Jesus did, Mr. Boyd said.
“America wasn’t founded as a theocracy,” he said. “America was founded by people trying to escape theocracies. Never in history have we had a Christian theocracy where it wasn’t bloody and barbaric. That’s why our Constitution wisely put in a separation of church and state.
“I am sorry to tell you,” he continued, “that America is not the light of the world and the hope of the world. The light of the world and the hope of the world is Jesus Christ.”
Mr. Boyd lambasted the “hypocrisy and pettiness” of Christians who focus on “sexual issues” like homosexuality, abortion or Janet Jackson’s breast-revealing performance at the Super Bowl halftime show. He said Christians these days were constantly outraged about sex and perceived violations of their rights to display their faith in public.
“Those are the two buttons to push if you want to get Christians to act,” he said. “And those are the two buttons Jesus never pushed.”
there's more to the story, i just quoted the important bits.
jesus is supposed to be the lord of our hearts, not the lord of our nation. i want to read his books.
Edited by brennakimi, : No reason given.
Edited by brennakimi, : No reason given.

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macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3958 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 21 of 50 (336701)
07-30-2006 5:37 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by randman
07-30-2006 5:21 PM


Re: inconsistency and false gospel?
that was exactly what i was referring to. but much more so the physical differences.
if you haven't met a hick, you wouldn't understand.

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macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3958 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 23 of 50 (336713)
07-30-2006 6:08 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by randman
07-30-2006 5:12 PM


Re: inconsistency and false gospel?
then maybe you should do some research about the history of abortion. i always knew that the church originally supported the legalization. the secret is not to read only things produced by the christian coalition about it.
the truth is that abortion was legalized in order to regulate it because before it was legalized, women were being murdered by the thousands by doctors who provided a necessary service with bad procedures and dirty instruments. did you ever see dirty dancing? picture that on a nationwide level. it's not because a bunch of bloodthirsty liberals were sitting in a smoky room trying to figure out how they could get away with murdering millions of babies. it was a bunch of people trying to protect women's health. that's why the church supported it, because they knew it was wrong to allow this to harm so many women. unlike you may think, surgical abortion and other forms of abortive birth control have been going on for as long as women have had uteri. it is a (usually) safe and normal way to control your use of resources when you are in times of scarcity or trouble. babies take lots of resources. if you haven't got any, it's stupid to have a baby. and of course, unlike you, i don't find any difference in responsibility between having an abortion, wearing a condom, or abstaining... only difference of risk. taking risks is not irresponsible. taking risks you can't afford is irresponsible... like having a baby when you're poor because you don't want "killing it" on your conscience. raising a child in scarcity has been demonstrated to cause disease both in youth and adulthood (see links below).
bringing life into the world when you can't care for it is the most irresponsible thing you can do.
BBC NEWS | Health | Diet 'affects arteries of foetus'
crap. i was gonna have more, but i lost the links to the stories i read just last night about people being bigger, stronger, and healthier than their grandparents and disease in midlife being reduced by a healthy childhood.
oh well.

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macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3958 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 24 of 50 (336714)
07-30-2006 6:10 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by randman
07-30-2006 5:09 PM


Re: Evangelical Pastor Boyd disowns religious political activism
i don't think you should be silent either, but you shouldn't be intent on denying rights that those without your particular ball and chain deserve.

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macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3958 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 28 of 50 (336727)
07-30-2006 7:06 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by randman
07-30-2006 6:17 PM


Re: inconsistency and false gospel?
give me proof.
sorry, but that reaks of bullshit.
Edited by brennakimi, : No reason given.

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macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3958 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 29 of 50 (336728)
07-30-2006 7:07 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by randman
07-30-2006 6:14 PM


Re: inconsistency and false gospel?
the church as a solid unit of social change. you know, the one that wrongly claims to have been so supportive of the civil rights movement.

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macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3958 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 30 of 50 (336729)
07-30-2006 7:10 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by randman
07-30-2006 5:48 PM


Re: inconsistency and false gospel?
some people are, and until you've lived with people like that, you wouldn't understand.
btw. i don't see the physical differences of people generally. i don't tend to look at people's faces and i almost never remember such things. and of course i think that most "cultural differences" in this country are fabricated by the media. every black person i ever knew was exactly the same as me. it doesn't take stupidity always. sometimes it simply takes a different way of looking at the world. to some it is actions and not appearance or history that is important.
Edited by brennakimi, : No reason given.

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macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3958 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 32 of 50 (336747)
07-30-2006 8:39 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by randman
07-30-2006 8:31 PM


Re: inconsistency and false gospel?
I think part of the problem is your assuming such a thing as a monolithic entity called the church exists organizationally.
i know there is no such entity, do you?
but there is such a political entity as the 'evangelical movement' or 'christian voters' or what have you. these are what i am referring to.
The truth is the civil righs movement was led by ministers of the gospel, and so the church as far as the churches of those ministers, did indeed lead the way there.
note, those were black ministers. it was more a movement of black people than of christians. most white christians were either uninterested or strongly opposed. that or interested but not concerned enough to be actively involved in marches, sit-ins, strikes and the impending jail time.
Edited by brennakimi, : No reason given.

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