Is eugenics the logical result of Darwinism?

An odd comment.If we think in those terms, then evolution can be said to have produced anything and everything human. So why pick out compassion particularly? Why not brutality?

Actually, I think there might be a connection between Nazi ideas and TOE, historically speaking.I don't mean that there is a valid logical connection, but what happens is that new scientific ideas become popularized, and when this happens they are susceptible to all kinds of vulgarization, like "social Darwinism."This message has been edited by robinrohan, 05-26-2005 04:05 PM

Here's a passage from Mein Kampf:"Naure herself in times of great poverty or bad climatic conditions, as well as poor harvest, intervenes to restrict the increase of population of certain countries or races; this, to be sure, by a method as wise as it is ruthless. She diminishes, not the power of procreation as such, but the conservation of the procreated, by exposing them to hard trials and deprivations with the result that all those who are less strong and less healthy are forced back into the womb of the eternal unknown. Those whom she permits to survive the inclemency of existence are a thousandfold tested, hardened, and well adapted to procreate in turn, in order that the process of thoroughgoing selection may begin again from the beginning. By thus brutally proceeding against the individual and immediately calling him back to herself as soon as he shows himself unequal to the storm of life, she keeps the race and species strong, in fact, raises them to the highest accomplishments."Is this not very remindful of natural selection?Biblio. info:Translator Ralph Mannheim. Boston: Houghton Mifflin, 1971., p. 131.

Let me slightly adjust what I stated before, which was that there might be a connection between Nazism and TOE. By TOE I mean a theory of evolution, not necessarily the modern version of TOE.

Let me see if I can get through Mein Kampf; if I find something else that relates, I'll let you know.I'm not so sure what's stated here is "non-evolutionary."

It is possible, Jar, that Hitler could believe in evolution and God at the same time. I noted what you quoted when I read it, and I do not think I am "quote-mining."I'm a little offended by that remark, because I am trying to be objective.You probably don't believe me, but it's true.

I see no mention of Jesus Christ.Wouldn't it be necessary to at least mention Him if one was a Christian?

Can I hear something about Jesus Christ? And how he is Hitler's Lord and Savior?You got that?

Well, we will see. Nothing about Jesus?Interesting.But anyway I will read on and find out.And I'm not quite sure why I am quote-mining and you are not.

I would also like to know your bibliographic info.

I did not say that nor did I intend it. What I said was that there was, I think, a historical connection between theories of evolution and Nazism.And you come back and suggest that I am trying to blame Nazism on evolution. It's not about blame. I think there is a strand of thought in Nazism that is related to ideas about evolution.As far as "quote-mining" supporting any idea, this is not the case if one does not take the quotes out of context and if one realizes that out of many speeches a politician might bring in all sorts of ideas that are only peripheral to his main philosophy. I understand that.One has to be judicious when examining these written works.I'm not denying that Hitler believed in God.And by the way, I'm still waiting for bibliographic info. for your quotes. I want to know where you got them.

I think there is a connection. I don't deny that there were other influences, such as Christianity.But I'll get back to you about this matter whenever I finish Mein Kampf.

You're right, I'm off topic. If I find something interesting in Mein Kampf, I'll start a new thread.I got the idea about evolutionary ideas from another book, a biography of Hitler. Unfortunately, the book does not include documentation, so I don't know exactly where the quotes from Hitler come from. So I could quote them, but I can't provide the documentation. I want to find the primary sources. But here's an example of what I'm talking about:"The basis of Hitler's political beliefs was a crude Darwinism.'Man has become great through struggle . . . Whatever goal man has reached is due to his orginality pllus his brutality . . . All life is bound up in three theses: Struggle is the father of all things, virtue lies in blood, leadership is primary and decisive.' It followed from this that 'through all the centuries force and power
are the determining factors . . . Only force rules. Force is the first law.'"The words in single quotation marks are Hitler's.from "Hitler: A Study in Tyranny," by Alan Bullock, abridged edition, page 225-6.I'm interested in finding out if "crude Darwinism" is an accurate description.So there is some basis for my tentative hypothesis, which comes from this secondary source.This message has been edited by robinrohan, 05-29-2005 12:50 PMThis message has been edited by robinrohan, 05-29-2005 12:52 PMThis message has been edited by robinrohan, 05-29-2005 12:52 PM

That's right, but the question I'm addressing is whether ideas about evolution, distorted or not, influenced Nazi ideology. Also, your idea about his Christian beliefs interest me. According to this book by Bullock, he was not sincerely Christian at all.

Maybe so. Maybe Bullock is biased.But here is a quote from Hitler from his book:"Taken to its logical extreme, Christianity would mean the systematic cultivation of the human failure." p. 219Like I said, I don't know what work by Hitler this is from. I'll try to find out.This is what Bullock says: "In Hitler's eyes Christianity was a religion fit only for slaves; he detested its ethics in particular. Its teaching, he declared, was a rebellion against the natural law of selection by struggle and the survival of the fittest." p. 219.Having read this, that's why I was surprised by your claim.