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Author Topic:   What is missing from the theory of evolution
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 1350 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 16 of 68 (684913)
12-19-2012 10:39 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by Taq
12-05-2012 3:37 PM


Directed Evolution

KOFH:
In regard to what you propose, essential Directed Evolution, I would agree and submit evidence to that idea in support of such a factor at work today and for the last 7 million years at least.

Taq:
So let's see that evidence.

ANDREW MARTIN and ANDREW POLLACK

Published: January 16, 2008

After years of debate, the Food and Drug Administration on Tuesday declared that food from cloned animals and their progeny is safe to eat, clearing the way for milk and meat derived from genetic copies of prized dairy cows, steers and hogs to be sold at the grocery store.

Related
The Lede: The Skeptics Share Your Thoughts
The decision was hailed by cloning companies and some farmers, who have been pushing for government approval in hopes of turning cloning into a routine agricultural tool. Because clones are costly, it is their offspring that are most likely to be used for producing milk, hamburgers or pork chops, while the clones themselves are reserved for breeding.

“This is a huge milestone,” said Mark Walton, president of ViaGen, a leading livestock cloning company in Austin, Tex.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by Taq, posted 12-05-2012 3:37 PM Taq has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by Taq, posted 12-19-2012 11:38 AM kofh2u has responded

    
Taq
Member
Posts: 7140
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.9


Message 17 of 68 (684929)
12-19-2012 11:38 AM
Reply to: Message 16 by kofh2u
12-19-2012 10:39 AM


Re: Directed Evolution
So the only intelligent designer you can point to is humans?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by kofh2u, posted 12-19-2012 10:39 AM kofh2u has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by jar, posted 12-19-2012 11:49 AM Taq has not yet responded
 Message 20 by kofh2u, posted 12-20-2012 9:03 PM Taq has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 29363
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.3


(2)
Message 18 of 68 (684934)
12-19-2012 11:49 AM
Reply to: Message 17 by Taq
12-19-2012 11:38 AM


Re: Directed Evolution
And even there the intelligence can be questioned. Consider the designer of "Lite Beer"?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Taq, posted 12-19-2012 11:38 AM Taq has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by kofh2u, posted 12-20-2012 9:20 PM jar has responded

  
Eli
Member (Idle past 1022 days)
Posts: 274
Joined: 08-24-2012


(1)
Message 19 of 68 (685008)
12-19-2012 11:34 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by kofh2u
12-19-2012 10:31 AM


Your version of "truth" is "shit I make up when the facts don't support my claims."

So, tell me, why aren't you adapting to your environment if you know you will go extinct sooner or later?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by kofh2u, posted 12-19-2012 10:31 AM kofh2u has not yet responded

  
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 1350 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 20 of 68 (685185)
12-20-2012 9:03 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by Taq
12-19-2012 11:38 AM


Re: Directed Evolution

So the only intelligent designer you can point to is humans?

So you agree there is one example then, and stand corrected on the initial incredulous attitude, right?

But that example is just the present State-of-the-Art in directed Evolution.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Taq, posted 12-19-2012 11:38 AM Taq has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 38 by Taq, posted 12-21-2012 11:43 AM kofh2u has not yet responded

    
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 1350 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 21 of 68 (685188)
12-20-2012 9:20 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by jar
12-19-2012 11:49 AM


Re: Directed Evolution

And even there the intelligence can be questioned.

1) Like with some of the people here, you mean/
Those who replace thinking with nonsense and ad homo ridicule when they stand correct in the light of Truth?

2) The Direction given to Evolution was inherent in the Natural Law of Life that made Survival the Prime Instinct.

3) What We see in all life forms is the tenacious instinctual drive to live, so often in the face of realities that cause almost insurmountable obstacles and even excruciating pain and suffering.

We see the lowest forms of life, like bacteria, suffer attacks from miracle drugs, but manage to mutate and survive in the face of attempts to kill them.

German Cockroaches (Germanica Blattella) will become resistant to insecticides after millions and millions of them have been exterminated in what seemed to a doom for that species.

This one Law indwelling all living things was God's Direct Evolution that intended for life to accompany His Reality as a partner and co-existing mirror that would eventually lead to a creature which could image His being and help Him maintain the relationship with Life forevermore.

Man HAS managed to form a mental IMAGE of "Father Nature" by understanding of His Laws and creation.

Gen. 1:26 And God, (Father Nature, Reality), said, Let us, (i.e., his Natural Laws, together, in pan-en-theistic expression of the Spirit of God: [Gen 1:2]), make man, (through the process of gradual evolution ending in the finished Adam i.e.; Jesus),... Let us ((i.e., his Natural Laws) make man, (as a reflection of Reality, in his mind, able, through Truth, to imminently reflect the "I am" of this existence: [John 14:6]), IN OUR IMAGE, (after the spirit of our orderly panentheistic organization): and let them, (men as the Dominant species on earth to this day), have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by jar, posted 12-19-2012 11:49 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by jar, posted 12-20-2012 9:29 PM kofh2u has responded
 Message 28 by Genomicus, posted 12-21-2012 12:11 AM kofh2u has responded

    
jar
Member
Posts: 29363
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 22 of 68 (685189)
12-20-2012 9:29 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by kofh2u
12-20-2012 9:20 PM


Re: Directed Evolution
You just can't stop misrepresenting what the Bible says, can you?

Is there some reason you keep trying to make Christians look like drooling ******?


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by kofh2u, posted 12-20-2012 9:20 PM kofh2u has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by kofh2u, posted 12-20-2012 10:07 PM jar has responded

  
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 1350 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 23 of 68 (685190)
12-20-2012 10:00 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by dayalanand roy
12-12-2012 9:32 AM


Re: philosophical considerations

Many thanks for taking so much trouble to read my post and reply it. I am here in this forum to get connected with people like you who can shape my opinions and, if possible, suggest some clues to test them.

That is the correct attitude for people which ought be maintained all their life since one life time is not even close to time enough to understand what this experience we encounter after leaving our mother's womb is all about.

At birth, we suddenly become aware of an almighty force that is in constant contact with us through our seven major senses.

This Force responds to things we do, and it makes us respond back, too.

Arrogantly, in a short time, we become confident that we understand and can interact with this Reality we face every second of our life.

We find this less than difficult at first, because we have been programmed in our Unconscious memories, those built from experiences back through all the 22 links to the very first Adam to appear on Earth..

Our Unconscious mind already knows things about the environment we will be discovering consciously, and already knows how that environment, both natural and social, will meet us after the first smack on our bottom.

This Unconscious mind inside us will lead us to complement and participate with Almighty Reality, as long as we adapt, accept, and conform to his ways and Natural Laws.

What we call "instinct" is one of the ways this Uncoscious mind leads and guides us.

This basic spirit-like Truth, this Unconscious mind that is within us, has evolved through genetic encoding of these instinctual and learned phylogenetic experiences.

Our genes have stored away knowledge and memories from previous life experiences that took place many times, over thousands of years.

This Ancient of ancients inside us is a third eye watching and whispering to us from birth more loudly, but still in whispers, always with us.

We are in a personal relationship with the storehouse of Truth, for life and, really, after death, until we are born again.

Knowledge of the world and the reality we will encounter has been contained in the memory of this Unconscious partner inside our head, experiential, through the school of hard knocks.

That is why I call it The Truth.

The TRUTH has been stored genetically inside our individual Unconscious mind which is born again with every birth.

The clean slate of our Conscious mind is chalk and blackboard for our generation, and a record keeper of what experiences and behaviors our generation will have had.

The good that men do will be so remembered.

It will be added to these Unconscious memories, while the evil that men will have done will be interred with their bones towards the Hell of Extinction of their kind.

The failures and the successes will collect as a Directied Evolution will emerge for our whole species, one that holds the Truth as the light into the Way for our species to find LIFE eternal with this God of the Living, i.e.; the Father of all Nature, the ever unfolding Force behind the changing Reality of the next generations of our kind will encounter.

Edited by kofh2u, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by dayalanand roy, posted 12-12-2012 9:32 AM dayalanand roy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 41 by dayalanand roy, posted 12-28-2012 12:01 PM kofh2u has responded
 Message 43 by Larni, posted 12-28-2012 3:36 PM kofh2u has not yet responded

    
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 1350 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 24 of 68 (685191)
12-20-2012 10:07 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by jar
12-20-2012 9:29 PM


Re: Directed Evolution

You just can't stop misrepresenting what the Bible says, can you?

Maybe you can better explain what the Bible is saying when it tellsus plain out that there willbe no more death, no pain, etc?

Revelation 21:4-5
And God, (blessing them with Total Phylogenetic Consciousness: [Carl Jung]), shall wipe away, (in their awakened Unconscious Mind: [Freudian Hypothesis]), all tears from their eyes, (for life is a genetically remember able, a continuum, we shall remember from one generation to the next living generation); and,
(in genetic memories of prior existences held in our Unconscious Mind) there shall be no more death... (For we shall not all "sleep:" [1Co15:51], but total phylogenetic Consciousness will have evolved), neither sorrow... (For we, individually, are part of a living continuum of our own past[s], flowers upon our genetic vine), nor crying,.. (for we are happy in these revelations of reconstitution from our human gene pool), neither shall there be any more pain, (as men will have neurological control, a self-hypnotic ability to stop the nerve signals to the brain),... for the former things (in Modern Homo sapiens paradigm of the life experience) are passed away.
And he, (the Christ, the ancient, phylogenetic, Collective Unconscious Mind in their own Kingdom within), that sat upon the throne (within the kingdom of the evolving Homoiousian sapiens' brain: [Luke 17:21]) said, Behold, (in this way, through evolution: [Gen 9:11-18]), I make all things (in human experience) new.
And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true, (i.e.; words of Christ himself, who is the experiential presence of Truth in us, rational, the Unconscious mind), and (worthy of) faithful (belief).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by jar, posted 12-20-2012 9:29 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by jar, posted 12-20-2012 10:20 PM kofh2u has responded

    
jar
Member
Posts: 29363
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.3


(1)
Message 25 of 68 (685192)
12-20-2012 10:20 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by kofh2u
12-20-2012 10:07 PM


Re: Directed Evolution
What I can do is be honest and repeat what it actually says and not add ridiculous, absurd, foundation-less, irrelevant editorial comments.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by kofh2u, posted 12-20-2012 10:07 PM kofh2u has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by kofh2u, posted 12-20-2012 10:41 PM jar has responded

  
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 1350 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 26 of 68 (685193)
12-20-2012 10:41 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by jar
12-20-2012 10:20 PM


Re: Directed Evolution

What I can do is be honest and repeat what it actually says and not add ridiculous, absurd, foundation-less, irrelevant editorial comments.

That is honest, but half true.

You thereby admit you do not know what you read in Rev 21:4-5 means exactly.
But you also can and do lock out any body else from telling you.

Through stubborn insistence, in that if you honestly... do not have a clue, you will nay-say anyone who hypothesizes one for you.

This is essentially a closed mind coupled to the arrogance, conceit, even jealousy against allowing an idea inthe absence of one yourself.

Isn't it?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by jar, posted 12-20-2012 10:20 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by jar, posted 12-20-2012 10:45 PM kofh2u has responded

    
jar
Member
Posts: 29363
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 27 of 68 (685194)
12-20-2012 10:45 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by kofh2u
12-20-2012 10:41 PM


Re: Directed Evolution
Bullshit. It does not mean I don't know what Revelation says, in fact I at least have read it.

It is not conceit, it is an honest evaluation of a bullshit post.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by kofh2u, posted 12-20-2012 10:41 PM kofh2u has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 30 by kofh2u, posted 12-21-2012 12:51 AM jar has responded

  
Genomicus
Member
Posts: 846
Joined: 02-15-2012


(3)
Message 28 of 68 (685197)
12-21-2012 12:11 AM
Reply to: Message 21 by kofh2u
12-20-2012 9:20 PM


Re: Directed Evolution
The Direction given to Evolution was inherent in the Natural Law of Life that made Survival the Prime Instinct.

Certainly, you are welcome to believe that the natural laws that allow evolutionary development were designed. This, however, would be a matter of belief and not a conclusion reached through the methods of science. On the other hand, it has been argued that intelligent design in biological systems can, in principle, be detected (under certain conditions) through the methods of science. Thus, the endeavor to detect ID in the biological world can be a scientific one (unfortunately, the Discovery Institute seems a bit more obsessed with critiquing Darwinian theory instead of proposing an ID hypothesis), while your beliefs cannot be considered to be in the realm of science.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by kofh2u, posted 12-20-2012 9:20 PM kofh2u has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 31 by kofh2u, posted 12-21-2012 12:55 AM Genomicus has responded

  
Genomicus
Member
Posts: 846
Joined: 02-15-2012


Message 29 of 68 (685198)
12-21-2012 12:13 AM


Re: Directed Evolution
A very brief note concerning the phrase "directed evolution," for those interested: technically speaking, the phrase "directed evolution" generally refers to a method of designing proteins, and usually has nothing to do with the natural history of species and genomes.
Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by kofh2u, posted 12-21-2012 1:01 AM Genomicus has not yet responded

  
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 1350 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 30 of 68 (685200)
12-21-2012 12:51 AM
Reply to: Message 27 by jar
12-20-2012 10:45 PM


Re: Directed Evolution
Well tells us what you think Rev 21:4-5 means, since we all can and have read the passage.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by jar, posted 12-20-2012 10:45 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
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