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EvC Forum Side Orders Coffee House Gun Control Again

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Author Topic:   Gun Control Again
Panda
Member (Idle past 3743 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 1195 of 5179 (686872)
01-04-2013 9:28 PM
Reply to: Message 1191 by crashfrog
01-04-2013 9:19 PM


Re: Statistical Blindness
Crazyfrog writes:
Well, sure. That works if people have no reason to collude and misrepresent some poor fucker as being the asshole. But suppose some small number of people say "you know, every time I see license plate ROAD-FR0G, I'm gonna shoot that guy's car with a sticky dart." On their own they don't get to stick too many darts, except a small number of people who really make it their mission to stick darts on that guy. Some number of other people get accidentally cut off during a lane change, or maybe tailgated a little bit, and when they see a couple of sticky darts on the car, they're less inclined to see those actions as unintentional irritations and more inclined to see them as the deliberate actions of an asshole. Sticky dart. ROAD-FR0G's friendly wave as he passes suddenly seems like a sarcastic provocation, instead. Sticky dart. His "have a nice day" bumper sticker seems less like an optimistic slogan and more like a middle finger. Sticky dart.
Sticky darts, Percy. There's no "established pattern" with me except a pattern of me being immediately subject to incredible personal vendettas starting with AZPaul3 on my return back in 2010 and subsequently by others, ever since. Sure, sure. You think I'm being "paranoid", except that I'm objectively not being paranoid. There's no other explanation for AZPaul3's immediately belligerent - and unprovoked - reply except that I somehow cause people to have personal vendettas against me. There's no other explanation for hackers following me to EvC to hack the place except that I somehow cause people to have personal vendettas against me.
Crazyfrog writes:
Percy writes:
I said that you believe the US is inherently more homicidal than the rest of the world, and you responded (and I quote), "Your own data supports this."
You said that I believe the US is inherently more homicidal than the rest of the world and what I replied with was that I don't believe this.
You're as mad as a box of frogs.

"There is no great invention, from fire to flying, which has not been hailed as an insult to some god." J. B. S. Haldane

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1191 by crashfrog, posted 01-04-2013 9:19 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1196 by crashfrog, posted 01-04-2013 9:30 PM Panda has not replied

Panda
Member (Idle past 3743 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 1197 of 5179 (686875)
01-04-2013 9:32 PM
Reply to: Message 1194 by crashfrog
01-04-2013 9:22 PM


Re: Statistical Blindness
CrazyFrog writes:
I knew it when I picked it. What gave you the impression I didn't know that?
Because you referred to it as a frog avatar.

"There is no great invention, from fire to flying, which has not been hailed as an insult to some god." J. B. S. Haldane

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1194 by crashfrog, posted 01-04-2013 9:22 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1198 by Rahvin, posted 01-04-2013 9:39 PM Panda has seen this message but not replied
 Message 1200 by crashfrog, posted 01-04-2013 9:41 PM Panda has seen this message but not replied

Panda
Member (Idle past 3743 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


(1)
Message 1227 of 5179 (686941)
01-05-2013 5:57 PM
Reply to: Message 1225 by hooah212002
01-05-2013 5:24 PM


Re: I missed out on New Years Eve fireworks (and two people died)
Hooah writes:
The search function on that site coupled with me manually searching still yields no results. Has anyone else found what crash was referring to? I've even tried a google search.
Nope, can't find it.
Your simple request for citation has again not been met.
Theodoric writes:
Was that so hard?
Yes - it seems it is.

"There is no great invention, from fire to flying, which has not been hailed as an insult to some god." J. B. S. Haldane

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1225 by hooah212002, posted 01-05-2013 5:24 PM hooah212002 has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1229 by xongsmith, posted 01-06-2013 12:40 AM Panda has seen this message but not replied

Panda
Member (Idle past 3743 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


(6)
Message 1239 of 5179 (686968)
01-06-2013 8:46 AM
Reply to: Message 1232 by Straggler
01-06-2013 6:21 AM


Re: The American Mind
Straggler writes:
Imagine if after a huge motorway pile-up in which lots of people died the UK government decided to impose stringent restrictions on car use. The right to own a car was removed for many. Cars with engines over a certain CC were outright banned. The number of journeys and total amount of miles per week for those lucky enough to have a car was legally limited. Any infringement of road laws (e.g. parking violations) would result in the immediate confiscation of one's car and license.
But there was a lack of car safety in the past: cars were far more dangerous - and so were the drivers.
And as the number of cars increased, the number of fatalities/injuries increased.
So legislation was introduced to mitigate this.
The following requirements became compulsory:
(No chronological order is intended.)
  • Car licences were introduced
  • Driving tests were introduced.
  • MOTs were introduced.
  • Selt belts became compulsory.
  • Speed limits were introduced.
  • DUI became illegal.
The list goes on and on...
Add to that all the non-compulsory elements added to car designs:
  • Roll bars
  • Air bags
  • Crumple zones
  • ABS
  • Side impact bars
Etc...
.
Now - imagine we instead mirrored the gun lobbiest's suggestions to reduce car deaths/injuries:
  • Increase the number of car owners.
  • Make cars easier to acquire.
  • Do not increase car legislature - preferably reduce it where possible.
  • State that there is not a problem - cars are fine.
  • Criminals can easily get cars, so there is no little point having car laws.
  • People have a right to drive cars however they want - because 200 years ago some politicians said that people have the right to drive horse-less carriages at top speed (i.e. 10 mph).
To me, the 'NRA-type' stance becomes blatant nonsense if a car analogy is used.
Edited by Panda, : No reason given.

"There is no great invention, from fire to flying, which has not been hailed as an insult to some god." J. B. S. Haldane

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1232 by Straggler, posted 01-06-2013 6:21 AM Straggler has not replied

Panda
Member (Idle past 3743 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


(1)
Message 1293 of 5179 (687300)
01-09-2013 11:00 AM
Reply to: Message 1282 by Dr Adequate
01-08-2013 10:21 PM


Dr A. writes:
But then Zombie King George III will rise from the grave to eat your liberties.
But that's crazy!
What will actually happen is that Liz II will emerge from her secret lair (hidden under Buckingham Palace) and TAKE BACK AMERICA!!
(We play the long game in the UK..."Slowly, slowly catchee monkey".)

"There is no great invention, from fire to flying, which has not been hailed as an insult to some god." J. B. S. Haldane

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1282 by Dr Adequate, posted 01-08-2013 10:21 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

Panda
Member (Idle past 3743 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


(4)
Message 1331 of 5179 (688256)
01-21-2013 10:20 AM
Reply to: Message 1326 by Faith
01-20-2013 11:11 PM


Re: The Un-reasonable Gun-control gun phobic Fanatic Mind
Faith writes:
If the Poles had greeted the conquering Nazis with peaceful protest would that have saved their country?
If the Poles had greeted the conquering Nazis with armed resistance would that have saved their country?

"There is no great invention, from fire to flying, which has not been hailed as an insult to some god." J. B. S. Haldane

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1326 by Faith, posted 01-20-2013 11:11 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1334 by RAZD, posted 01-21-2013 3:37 PM Panda has seen this message but not replied
 Message 1336 by Faith, posted 01-21-2013 4:09 PM Panda has replied

Panda
Member (Idle past 3743 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


(2)
Message 1338 of 5179 (688281)
01-21-2013 4:21 PM
Reply to: Message 1336 by Faith
01-21-2013 4:09 PM


Re: The Un-reasonable Gun-control gun phobic Fanatic Mind
Faith writes:
HOWEVER, maybe armed resistance would have saved Poland, maybe it would even have deterred Hitler altogether.
Polish citizens were armed.
Yes - there was armed resistance.
No - it didn't deter Hitler.
Faith writes:
Again, I don't know.
Yes - that is obvious.
Just in case you'd like to actually know: Invasion of Poland - Wikipedia
Edited by Panda, : No reason given.

"There is no great invention, from fire to flying, which has not been hailed as an insult to some god." J. B. S. Haldane

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1336 by Faith, posted 01-21-2013 4:09 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1340 by Faith, posted 01-21-2013 4:28 PM Panda has not replied

Panda
Member (Idle past 3743 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 1545 of 5179 (689260)
01-29-2013 7:59 AM
Reply to: Message 1544 by ICANT
01-28-2013 11:44 PM


Re: Some cases where guns would have helped and where they did help
ICANT writes:
So when we teach our children that it is alright to murder 1 child every 20 seconds what do you expect them to grow up thinking.
I suggest that you stop teaching children.
ICANT writes:
Yea I know that is warped thinking, but warped people think in warped ways and do warped things.
Which is why we don't want you to have a gun.
{abe}
One last, obviously silly, quote:
ICANT writes:
Life is not precious in America.
ICANT writes:
The life of my wife is very precious as well as mine...
Perhaps it would help if you could maintain a consistent position - at least during a single post.
Edited by Panda, : No reason given.
Edited by Panda, : No reason given.
Edited by Panda, : No reason given.

"There is no great invention, from fire to flying, which has not been hailed as an insult to some god." J. B. S. Haldane

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1544 by ICANT, posted 01-28-2013 11:44 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1552 by ICANT, posted 01-29-2013 1:47 PM Panda has replied

Panda
Member (Idle past 3743 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 1554 of 5179 (689317)
01-29-2013 3:00 PM
Reply to: Message 1552 by ICANT
01-29-2013 1:47 PM


Re: Some cases where guns would have helped and where they did help
ICANT writes:
I am sorry you have to be fed with a spoon.
I am nowhere near to being in your situation - but thanks for the concern.
ICANT writes:
I don't teach children it is alright to commit murder but as a country we have made it legal to commit murder. Which is teaching our children it is alright to commit murder.
It is not teaching.
Clearly you think abortion is murder.
Are you therefore uneducated?
Or perhaps you are just immune to learning?
And in fact, if it is legal then, by definition, it is not murder.
ICANT writes:
If you are going to make such outlandish obervations you should at least not quote mine. But if you didn't you couldn't support your accusations.
Correct.
Without quotes from you, I could not support my claims about you.
But luckily there are many posts from you to quote from.
ICANT writes:
When you add the rest of the quote you see that the children are doing the thinking and I am saying that is warped thinking.
But you are part of the problem by promoting that kind of warped thinking.
See...not just children with warped thinking.
That reminds me of something someone once said:
"Yea I know that is warped thinking, but warped people think in warped ways and do warped things."
Which is why we don't want you to have a gun.
ICANT writes:
If life was precious in America there would be no abortions.
There would be no alcohol.
There would be no ilegal drugs
The drugs and alcohol cause many children to go to bed each night hungry.
So tell me how precious life is in America?
But yes my life and the life of my wife is precious to me.
Thanks for elaborating.
I see that you tried to move the contradictory sentences further apart.
Has that technique worked in the past?
Anyway, you are still contradicting yourself.

"There is no great invention, from fire to flying, which has not been hailed as an insult to some god." J. B. S. Haldane

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1552 by ICANT, posted 01-29-2013 1:47 PM ICANT has not replied

Panda
Member (Idle past 3743 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


(1)
Message 1620 of 5179 (689968)
02-06-2013 8:32 PM
Reply to: Message 1617 by ICANT
02-06-2013 5:25 PM


Re: Some cases where guns would have helped and where they did help
ICANT writes:
Lets say you are making 50,000, you have taxable income of 42,000. Your tax rate would be 40% on 42,000 which would average out to 33.6% of your 50,000 income.
No, that is not how it works.
Read it again:
ICANT writes:
But paying 20% taxes on all income over 8,000 up to 41,500 and 40% on all income between 41,500 up to 150,000 and 50% over 150,000 should be oppresive to Americans.
Using your example:
ICANT writes:
Lets say you are making 50,000, you have taxable income of 42,000. Your tax rate would be 40% on 42,000 which would average out to 33.6% of your 50,000 income.
8000 @ 0% = 0
41,500 - 8,000 = 33,500 @ 20% = 6,700
50,000 - 41,500 = 8,500 @ 40% = 3,400
Total income tax on 50,000 = 0 + 6,700 + 3,400 = 10,100
Average = 20.2%
And that is just one of many mistakes in your post.
Economics is not one of your strengths.
Your claim that we have an oppressively high tax rate is simply wrong.
And if taxes are the nearest you can come to identifying a source UK oppression then that is pathetic.
Edited by Panda, : No reason given.
Edited by Panda, : No reason given.
Edited by Panda, : No reason given.

"There is no great invention, from fire to flying, which has not been hailed as an insult to some god." J. B. S. Haldane

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1617 by ICANT, posted 02-06-2013 5:25 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1621 by ICANT, posted 02-06-2013 10:10 PM Panda has replied

Panda
Member (Idle past 3743 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 1625 of 5179 (689981)
02-07-2013 6:33 AM
Reply to: Message 1621 by ICANT
02-06-2013 10:10 PM


Re: Some cases where guns would have helped and where they did help
ICANT writes:
Let me try the income tax on 50 million.
Only a handful of people in the UK earn over 50 million.
Considering that only the highest, most influential people in the UK earn over 50 million; is your point that the people who run this country are oppressing themselves?
And if taxes are all that you can think of (while being completely wrong about taxes) then you have nothing to support your claim that the UK is oppressed.
ICANT writes:
How does the National Insurance work?
Do you pay a 20% VAT tax on many items with a lesser VAT on some items?
Does the landlords add the cost of their council tax into the rent?
Does mortgage companies add the council tax into the payments and put it in escrow until the time to pay the council tax?
That ought to clear it up for me.
So - you admit that you do not know what you are talking about.
Then your claims of oppressive taxation are made in ignorance and should be ignored.
{abe}
Let's look at some of these rich and powerful people: The British Prime Minister, David Cameron and his wife Samantha Cameron.
He is worth over 30 million and she is worth over 20 million.
But he is oppressing both himself and his wife?
Seriously?
Edited by Panda, : No reason given.
Edited by Panda, : No reason given.
Edited by Panda, : No reason given.

"There is no great invention, from fire to flying, which has not been hailed as an insult to some god." J. B. S. Haldane

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1621 by ICANT, posted 02-06-2013 10:10 PM ICANT has not replied

Panda
Member (Idle past 3743 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 1648 of 5179 (690071)
02-08-2013 12:47 PM
Reply to: Message 1647 by Tanypteryx
02-08-2013 11:37 AM


Re: The Weapon Shops of Isher
Tanypteryx writes:
Has anyone read The Weapon Shops of Isher and The Weapon Makers by A.E. van Vogt?
Yes, read them as a kid - a fun read.
A bit simplistic, but then Asimov's books could be too.
But they are both entertaining authors.
Tanypteryx writes:
Their super-smart weapons technology stops their weapons from firing in anger or madness. They can only be used for self defense, hunting, target practice, etc.
The technology in those stories were very close to simply being magic.
But I remember inventing ways to circumvent the security protocols.
Tanypteryx writes:
A good science-fiction read from the '50s and 60's, but maybe not so impossible with the technology today. The new camera I just bought my wife recognizes when it is pointed at people and focuses on their face.
This reminds me of a chat I was having the other day: "Has the biggest affect on crime been technological advances?"
Car theft has halved (in the UK) in a decade. Why?
Is it perhaps the central-locking, alarmed, engine immobilised, wheel locked, transponder keyed cars?
I think technology can play a part in preventing all crimes, so guns shouldn't be any different.
Would any policeman NOT want a gun that is programmed to only be fired by authorised people?
Edited by Panda, : No reason given.
Edited by Panda, : No reason given.

"There is no great invention, from fire to flying, which has not been hailed as an insult to some god." J. B. S. Haldane

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1647 by Tanypteryx, posted 02-08-2013 11:37 AM Tanypteryx has not replied

Panda
Member (Idle past 3743 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


(1)
Message 1679 of 5179 (690250)
02-11-2013 6:11 AM
Reply to: Message 1678 by saab93f
02-11-2013 5:08 AM


Re: Yet another "isolated" incident
saab writes:
I dont know how influential Terry Jones is really but to me this struck as quite scary.
I don't know what the point of religion is, when believers are so filled with violence, hated and fear.

"There is no great invention, from fire to flying, which has not been hailed as an insult to some god." J. B. S. Haldane

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1678 by saab93f, posted 02-11-2013 5:08 AM saab93f has not replied

Panda
Member (Idle past 3743 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


(3)
Message 1801 of 5179 (690697)
02-15-2013 11:53 AM
Reply to: Message 1799 by ICANT
02-15-2013 11:07 AM


Re: Some cases where guns would have helped and where they did help
ICANT writes:
Now if you let anyone but YOU put a gun in YOU home YOU are an idiot.
Who put a gun in your home? You.
Who put a gun in your wife's home? You.
Who put a gun in your children's home (before they grew up)? You.
Therefore your wife and children are idiots....using YOUR 'reasoning'.
Edited by Panda, : No reason given.

"There is no great invention, from fire to flying, which has not been hailed as an insult to some god." J. B. S. Haldane

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1799 by ICANT, posted 02-15-2013 11:07 AM ICANT has seen this message but not replied

Panda
Member (Idle past 3743 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


(2)
Message 2204 of 5179 (697966)
05-02-2013 6:23 AM
Reply to: Message 2202 by saab93f
05-02-2013 4:16 AM


Re: Tragedy and idiocy
Give children guns.
What could possibly go wrong.
Edited by Panda, : No reason given.

"There is no great invention, from fire to flying, which has not been hailed as an insult to some god." J. B. S. Haldane

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2202 by saab93f, posted 05-02-2013 4:16 AM saab93f has not replied

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