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Author Topic:   Why did the Christian messiah fail to fulfill the messianic prophecies?
Faith
Member
Posts: 25793
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 346 of 715 (804342)
04-08-2017 10:39 AM
Reply to: Message 345 by Davidjay
04-08-2017 10:05 AM


I believe you are wrong about The Branch. It's identified as singular for one thing, as He, not as two. And it's always considered to be a metaphor for the Messiah, a branch that grows up from the root of David.

"Vine" on the other hand usually stands for Israel, although Jesus did use it for Himself in "I am the Vine, you are the branches."

Here's a reference

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 345 by Davidjay, posted 04-08-2017 10:05 AM Davidjay has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 347 by Davidjay, posted 04-08-2017 11:17 AM Faith has not yet responded

    
Davidjay 
Suspended Member
Posts: 1026
From: B.C Canada
Joined: 11-05-2004


Message 347 of 715 (804348)
04-08-2017 11:17 AM
Reply to: Message 346 by Faith
04-08-2017 10:39 AM


The Vine is the Lord, and not a worldly country..... for as He said, I AM THE VINE, and as his angel said These are the TWO BRANCHES, referring to the two olive branches or two prophets or two pillars, or two candlesticks as mentioned in the Lord's End Time prophecies.

http://www.davidjayjordan.com/2WitnessesofRevelation.html

http://www.davidjayjordan.com/BoazandJachinPillars.html

So I would say the Branch, in almost all cases represents End Time King David.

But the best verses illustrating this is probably in the major prophets .... two branches, two staves, branch of beauty if my memory is right, or something similiar, so I shall try to get back to you on this other confirming passage of the two branches becoming one.


.
Evolution is not science and is pure religion, forced upon the young to ensure their faith in luck and chance rather than mathematics and design.

The Lord created science and all things. Laws did not create themselves. Nothing happened by chance and accident.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 346 by Faith, posted 04-08-2017 10:39 AM Faith has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
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Davidjay 
Suspended Member
Posts: 1026
From: B.C Canada
Joined: 11-05-2004


Message 348 of 715 (804349)
04-08-2017 11:24 AM
Reply to: Message 347 by Davidjay
04-08-2017 11:17 AM


Hi again Faith, Yes, its about the two branches in Zechariah 11, and as you probably know Zechariah is a perfect match with Revelation 11, the two end time prophets, two not one. ...a king and a priest or priestess.

One bands, one BEAUTY... ahh beauty.

So read again Zechariah 11 with Revelation 11... ythan possibility reconsider the great possibility.

Thanks

(Whoops pushed the wrong response button, Im a bit of a creature of habit, the GENERAL BUTTON did not work for my first week HERE, as well as the reply button at the end of posters message, until I got full membership or something like that, so I disregarded the GENERAL REPLY ever since. Shall relearn the procedure)


.
Evolution is not science and is pure religion, forced upon the young to ensure their faith in luck and chance rather than mathematics and design.

The Lord created science and all things. Laws did not create themselves. Nothing happened by chance and accident.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 347 by Davidjay, posted 04-08-2017 11:17 AM Davidjay has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 349 by Faith, posted 04-08-2017 12:07 PM Davidjay has responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 25793
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 349 of 715 (804353)
04-08-2017 12:07 PM
Reply to: Message 348 by Davidjay
04-08-2017 11:24 AM


Yes there are references to two branches of an olive tree in Zechariah but that's not the same thing as The Branch which is singular and refers to the Messiah, which is particularly clear in Jeremiah 33:15:

Jer 33:15
In those days, and at that time, will I cause the Branch of righteousness to grow up unto David; and he shall execute judgment and righteousness in the land.

HE shall execute.... doesn't suggest two, but only one.

I haven't done a comparison of Zech 11 with Rev 11, maybe later.

There is a reference to Israel as the Vine in Psalm 80:

Psalm 80:8, 11.Thou hast brought a vine out of Egypt: thou hast cast out the heathen, and planted it... Its branches reached as far as the Sea, its shoots as far as the River.

Israel was not a worldly nation in the Old Testament, it was God's Chosen People.

I agree that Jesus refers to Himself as the Vine in at least that one place, and Israel is also referred to as a Vineyard in the New Testamen, the vineyard that brought forth bad fruit.

There are lots of interesting ways such images are used in the Bible and I certainly don't know them all, but I did know that The Branch, singular, refers to the Messiah. I've wondered about the two olive trees in Zechariah, certainly something to be studied.

ABE: The reply button you want is the one at the bottom right of the post you are replying to.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 348 by Davidjay, posted 04-08-2017 11:24 AM Davidjay has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 351 by Davidjay, posted 04-09-2017 1:04 AM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 353 by Davidjay, posted 04-09-2017 1:17 AM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 357 by kbertsche, posted 04-10-2017 1:15 PM Faith has responded

    
PaulK
Member
Posts: 12960
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 3.4


(1)
Message 350 of 715 (804354)
04-08-2017 12:08 PM
Reply to: Message 345 by Davidjay
04-08-2017 10:05 AM


quote:

Your ignorance of prophecy doesnt negate Jesus fulfilling ALL Messianic Prophecy including the exact year of His Birth

Your ignorance of prophecy does not change the fact that there is no such prophecy or any way of knowing the exact year of Jesus' birth.

I suggest you go away and do some real research instead of embarrassing yourself with these displays of ignorance.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 345 by Davidjay, posted 04-08-2017 10:05 AM Davidjay has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 352 by Davidjay, posted 04-09-2017 1:11 AM PaulK has responded

    
Davidjay 
Suspended Member
Posts: 1026
From: B.C Canada
Joined: 11-05-2004


Message 351 of 715 (804389)
04-09-2017 1:04 AM
Reply to: Message 349 by Faith
04-08-2017 12:07 PM


Faith, thats another verse about the End Time King David, Hes from the his loins, a mere person, a descendant of King David of Old. Jesus was not a sinner, and not a servant, and below the level of God, but is God and is the VINE

Our prophet and king of the End Time is a mere man like King David of old. Jesus promised King David that a descendant of His would follow in the End Time.

Consider reading and studying all the End Time King David verses hereein

http://www.davidjayjordan.com/EndtimeKingdavid.html

or

http://www.davidjayjordan.com/Therewillbetwopeophets.html

Edited by Davidjay, : No reason given.


.
The Lord is the GREAT SCIENTIST as He created SCIENCE and ALL LAWS and ALL MATTER and of course ALL LIFE. God is the Great Architect, Designer and Mathematician. Evolutioon is not mathematical and says there is no DESIGN but that all things came about by sheer LUCK.

.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 349 by Faith, posted 04-08-2017 12:07 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
Davidjay 
Suspended Member
Posts: 1026
From: B.C Canada
Joined: 11-05-2004


Message 352 of 715 (804390)
04-09-2017 1:11 AM
Reply to: Message 350 by PaulK
04-08-2017 12:08 PM


Challenge me, Paul K have some courage and ask for a new TOPIC on the exact year of Jesus birth, exact as in EXACT.
Your mouth is running so back it up, have some faith in your not so bright denials.

Just ask the Administraters to allow a new TOPIC at NEW PROPOSED TOPICS.

I and any Christian or any studied person can easily do the math, and calculate from known confirmed dates, and then absoluterly prove the year of Jesus' BIRTH.

Have some testicles or ovaries, and challenge me... or keep your frontal gates closed.

Whewee, this is the basic prophecy of all time...and the basic design for all of the End Time.

Thanks for mentioning it !!!!!


.
The Lord is the GREAT SCIENTIST as He created SCIENCE and ALL LAWS and ALL MATTER and of course ALL LIFE. God is the Great Architect, Designer and Mathematician. Evolutioon is not mathematical and says there is no DESIGN but that all things came about by sheer LUCK.

.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 350 by PaulK, posted 04-08-2017 12:08 PM PaulK has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 354 by PaulK, posted 04-09-2017 1:38 AM Davidjay has not yet responded

    
Davidjay 
Suspended Member
Posts: 1026
From: B.C Canada
Joined: 11-05-2004


Message 353 of 715 (804392)
04-09-2017 1:17 AM
Reply to: Message 349 by Faith
04-08-2017 12:07 PM


End Time David as the JUDGE
OK Faith you know there are two end time prophets, so now consider that they have two united but separate ministries. One is the King the other is the Priest or Priestess of the Temple (or more appropriately the Tabernacle).

It has to follow the pattern of the past

David and Nathaniel
Joshua and Zerbubabal
Boaz and Joahim
Moses and Aaron

Our King David must judge His people as did Moses. The Priest or Priestess is not the judge but is in charge of the Tabernacl;e in the wilderness.

Think End Time, and our fleeing to the wilderness and our having the TWO as our dual leadership........


.
The Lord is the GREAT SCIENTIST as He created SCIENCE and ALL LAWS and ALL MATTER and of course ALL LIFE. God is the Great Architect, Designer and Mathematician. Evolutioon is not mathematical and says there is no DESIGN but that all things came about by sheer LUCK.

.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 349 by Faith, posted 04-08-2017 12:07 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
PaulK
Member
Posts: 12960
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 354 of 715 (804395)
04-09-2017 1:38 AM
Reply to: Message 352 by Davidjay
04-09-2017 1:11 AM


quote:

Challenge me, Paul K have some courage and ask for a new TOPIC on the exact year of Jesus birth, exact as in EXACT.

Oh, so you don't have the guts to create your own topic ?

The simple fact is that the Gospels of Luke and Matthew disagree on the birth date and nobody else gives any information at all.

quote:

I and any Christian or any studied person can easily do the math, and calculate from known confirmed dates, and then absoluterly prove the year of Jesus' BIRTH.

No, they can't. They might be able to play silly games with numbers that can't be known to be right or even relevant. But that is all. You don't have the numbers. And let's not forget that we've seen you botch a calculation here and dishonestly tried to ignore it when it was pointed out.

quote:

Whewee, this is the basic prophecy of all time...and the basic design for all of the End Time

No wonder that you keep getting the date of the end wrong, then. Last time you were here you said it would be 2011, you still have a web page up saying it would start this year and I see signs of at least one earlier date. So much for your "exact" mathematics.

Daniel 7 is about events from the second century BC. If you did some real research instead of relying on people who try to force fit the text to their own ideas you would know that.


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Replies to this message:
 Message 355 by Faith, posted 04-09-2017 9:06 AM PaulK has responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 25793
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 355 of 715 (804410)
04-09-2017 9:06 AM
Reply to: Message 354 by PaulK
04-09-2017 1:38 AM


...the Gospels of Luke and Matthew disagree on the birth date ...

Where do either of them even mention the birth date?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 354 by PaulK, posted 04-09-2017 1:38 AM PaulK has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 356 by PaulK, posted 04-09-2017 9:16 AM Faith has not yet responded

    
PaulK
Member
Posts: 12960
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 3.4


(2)
Message 356 of 715 (804413)
04-09-2017 9:16 AM
Reply to: Message 355 by Faith
04-09-2017 9:06 AM


Matthew has Jesus born late in the reign of Herod the Great (made absolutely clear by Matthew 2:22 if there is any doubt). Luke has the birth occur during the census of Quirinius (Luke2:2) which took place shortly after the removal of Herod's successor, Archelaus.

(As a side note Herod the Great's realm was divided after his death, Archelause ruled a large part of it until he was deposed by Rome)


This message is a reply to:
 Message 355 by Faith, posted 04-09-2017 9:06 AM Faith has not yet responded

    
kbertsche
Member
Posts: 1361
From: San Jose, CA, USA
Joined: 05-10-2007


(2)
Message 357 of 715 (804492)
04-10-2017 1:15 PM
Reply to: Message 349 by Faith
04-08-2017 12:07 PM


I'm with Faith on this. The "branch" is Jesus. In fact, "branch" is the root of "Nazarene" and "Nazareth" in the NT (though few know this). So when Matthew says that "He shall be called a Nazarene", he is saying "he shall be called the Branch" and is referring back to OT prophecies: Is 11:1 and Is 6:13.
http://www.dts.edu/...good-come-from-nazareth-ronald-b-allen

Edited by kbertsche, : No reason given.


"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." Albert Einstein

I am very astonished that the scientific picture of the real world around me is very deficient. It gives us a lot of factual information, puts all of our experience in a magnificently consistent order, but it is ghastly silent about all and sundry that is really near to our heart, that really matters to us. It cannot tell us a word about red and blue, bitter and sweet, physical pain and physical delight; it knows nothing of beautiful and ugly, good or bad, God and eternity. Science sometimes pretends to answer questions in these domains, but the answers are very often so silly that we are not inclined to take them seriously. Erwin Schroedinger


This message is a reply to:
 Message 349 by Faith, posted 04-08-2017 12:07 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 358 by Faith, posted 04-10-2017 1:52 PM kbertsche has not yet responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 25793
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 358 of 715 (804495)
04-10-2017 1:52 PM
Reply to: Message 357 by kbertsche
04-10-2017 1:15 PM


Thanks for that reminder. I'd completely forgotten it's the root of Nazarene.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 357 by kbertsche, posted 04-10-2017 1:15 PM kbertsche has not yet responded

    
Davidjay 
Suspended Member
Posts: 1026
From: B.C Canada
Joined: 11-05-2004


Message 359 of 715 (804546)
04-11-2017 1:18 AM
Reply to: Message 15 by Faith
07-26-2013 4:33 AM


Re: The Suffering Servant messianic passages
Jewish people didnt want a seemingly weak and loving messiah, they wanted a political deliverer, and so of course missed the true Messiah, who came to deliver all mankind not just them.

Jews are just people no better than any other person. No race, or religious parentage, or so called bloodlines ever helped anyone. Thats racism, thats evolution doctrine, that they are superior genetically than others. Untrue. We are all equal, thats CHRISTIANITY, thats fair, thats just.

Dont worship a people or a group, thats elitism. Jews think they are better than others, and stupid church people feel inferior and so they tend to agree with Jewish thoughts and false superiority.

JESUS fulfilled all the Messianic prophecies..... but you all are screwing up all sorts of wierd prophecies trying to deny the obvious fulfillments of JESUS

http://davidjayjordan.com/ProofofJesusDivinity.html

http://davidjayjordan.com/...PropheciesfulfilledbyJesus.html

OK This thread has been won by the Lord.

Its over.... Jesus wins again.

Deny all you want folks, it doesnt take away from the fact that JESUS fulfilled ALL as in ALL and EVERYONE of the MESSIANIC PROPHECIES including the exact year of His DEATH in Daniel 9

But then again, no one HERE knows any math that I know of, and are afraid of it..

http://davidjayjordan.com/Daniel9.html

http://www.davidjayjordan.com/TimeProphecy.html


.
The Lord is the GREAT SCIENTIST as He created SCIENCE and ALL LAWS and ALL MATTER and of course ALL LIFE. God is the Great Architect, Designer and Mathematician. Evolutioon is not mathematical and says there is no DESIGN but that all things came about by sheer LUCK.

.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by Faith, posted 07-26-2013 4:33 AM Faith has not yet responded

    
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 5765
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005


Message 360 of 715 (804574)
04-11-2017 10:16 AM
Reply to: Message 343 by Phat
11-03-2016 8:34 AM


reply to old post skip

Edited by Theodoric, : No reason given.


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
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