Why did the Christian messiah fail to fulfill the messianic prophecies?

I've been forced into trying to explain the star, but there's more to the video than that, and nothing is forced about any of it. The questions are about whether he has the right dates, not about the phenomena on those dates nor their correspondence with scripture -- which in itself suggests he may have found the right dates.Nor is the timing of the star forced, such as the fact that Jupiter did begin retrograde six months after the bright conjunction of it with Venus. I think it is reasonable to try to interpret it from the Magis' point of view, which is what I've been doing.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

The something special is that it can be marketed. Just like Santa with the bucket collecting coins. Put Jesus on one corner with a bucket and Santa on the other corner and guess who will collect the most money?

He allowed six months for the trip of 700 miles from Babylon, and shows Jupiter in the southern sky as they turned toward Bethlehem.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

I think a familiarity with the night sky is valuable in putting what Larson says into perspective. Last year there was a very brilliant conjunction with Jupiter and Venus around August. Most likely the most spectacular one we will see in our lifetimes. Earlier this month, Jupiter was in opposition and was at its near peak brightest. If you missed it, don't worry, you can see another opposition in about 13 months.Now granted, those observations won't help with the astrology part of things. But they do give us some clue regarding what planets and stars do, and how often. If you haven't got that perspective, then you might be too easily impressed when the astrology/numerology cranks are doing their thing.Keep looking up!Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Which was how much exactly? By people who buy his hypothesis.

I didn't ask about the journey from Babylon, I asked about the journey from Jerusalem to Bethlehem. According to Matthew 2:9 it was that journey which was lead by the star, and ended with the star stopping.(ABE: they saw the star in the East according to Matthew 2:2 and Jerusalem is West of Babylon so following the star from Babylon makes no sense anyway)Edited by PaulK, : No reason given.

Also the Magi are depicted as educated people. Even at the time of Christ and for thousands of years before Christ people understood celestial movements. A great example is the racetrack at Stonehenge which was built right around the time the Garden of Eden was supposed to exist.The Magi would have been way to smart to try to follow the planet Jupiter anywhere and from a distance of 700 miles away it would be impossible to tell that it was over any given place.Regardless, as far as the Magi were concerned any town on any line made between where they were and where Jupiter appeared during the observation would be valid.The story is pure folk myth.

Faith, the planets did what they did which includes a lot more stuff that is not being mentioned here. There is no known association of any of that planet moving with any Biblical event whose date we do not know exactly. The narrative that ties all of this stuff together the putative forcing.Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

The conjunction is pictured as forming a figure 8, one right up against the other.Look, I watched this thing at least three times before I could get a grip on the events he was talking about. There's enough in it that is compelling anyway, so I kept going back to it in spite of the difficulty putting it all together.I had a lot of questions of my own. I don't see any reason to distrust his honesty, but he certainly could have made mistakes in spite of putting in a lot of research to get things right.I watched it very carefully yesterday in order to sketch it out as I did in Message 440 which allowed me finally to see how one event related to another. I think the objectivity of the study comes through in that, which increases the awe factor for me rather than diminishing it. Sure, he could still have gotten some things wrong, but not on the level of the wild accusations going on here..ABE: Excahyoose me, but the ability of the scientifically minded of EvC to allow themselves to have a wild opinion WITHOUT BOTHERING ABOUT THE EVIDENCE is really amazing.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

The line about seeing it in the east can't mean the star WAS in the east; that's not a mistake the scripture could have made. They went to Judea and that's west so that line has to be understood in some other way.It's five miles south from Jerusalem to Bethlehem, about a two or three hour trek I would guess, and the software shows Jupiter in the southern sky during the time Larson thinks they made the trip. Yes it would have moved, but the question is what is meant by the star stopping since of course the sky continues to move.

What wild accusations?You are not being objective. As is your wont, you've watched yet another video, and have bought into whatever is being sold. Everyone here has seen you go through that same process that time and time again.Here is a reasonable way to proceed.1) Astrology is horse caca 2) planets, even in retrograde don't hang stationary over a city, and 3) we don't know the date of Christ's birth.
There is no real reason or import to accept anyone's guess about the date. That applies to both believers and non-believers. The exact date has no theological relevance.I don't doubt Larson's honesty. But I could say the same thing for Davidjay. I don't doubt his honesty either.ABE:I overspoke. I do think Davidjay has some honesty challenges. But I think he believes that the numerology he describes is something divine.Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

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The line about seeing it in the east can't mean the star WAS in the east; that's not a mistake the scripture could have made. They went to Judea and that's west so that line has to be understood in some other way.

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The scripture doesn't say that they followed the star to Jerusalem, so the question of the scripture being in error does not arise.

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It's five miles south from Jerusalem to Bethlehem, about a two or three hour trek I would guess, and the software shows Jupiter in the southern sky during the time Larson thinks they made the trip. Yes it would have moved, but the question is what is meant by the star stopping since of course the sky continues to move.

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This is where Larson's idea of retrograde motion as the explanation runs into trouble. The motion observed in a single night is completely dominated by the rotation of the Earth. The orbital motion - including the appearance of retrograde motion - is detected by observing the relative location of the planet over a number of nights. Hardly something that would be done in a journey of a couple of hours.

You have an irony deficiency.

So far I have expressed the opinions that Jupiter goes retrograde once a year, and that conjunctions of Jupiter with Venus happen once a year. These opinions are neither wild nor unevidenced.

The star would not have appeared in the east if it announced the birth of a King of the Jews.Observation may not be the key to the stopping of the star, it could have been based on the Magis' own calculations since they had spent their lives at that sort of thing. I think this is an implication, though Larson doesn't say this.