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Author Topic:   The 2017 Republican Controlled U.S. Congress
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 1318
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 6.3


Message 31 of 56 (798775)
02-05-2017 1:32 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by Porosity
02-05-2017 12:10 PM


Re: H.R.861 - To terminate the Environmental Protection Agency.
none of this will matter when the oceans food chain collapses.
"With higher metabolic rates in the warmer water, and therefore a greater demand for food, there is a mismatch with less food available for carnivores—the bigger fish that fisheries industries are based around," says Associate Professor Nagelkerken. "There will be a species collapse from the top of the food chain down."

https://phys.org/...0-global-marine-analysis-food-chain.html

When this happens the planet will starve to death, triggering the greatest mass extinction not seen in this world for 60 million years.

This has already begun. The oceans are becoming more acidified as they absorb excess CO2. I just finished reading The Sixth Extinction, An Unnatural History by Elizabeth Kolbert and it documents the extinction event that compares with the great extinction events that mark the major changes in the history of life. Humans have an impact on the planet that is unprecedented in the last 65 million years.

The attempts by the Whitehouse and Congress the dismantle all the agencies that might be able to discover methods to stop or slow down the destruction of the ecosphere are perplexing and insane. It is like celebrating our own demise.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy


This message is a reply to:
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NoNukes
Member
Posts: 9192
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 32 of 56 (798843)
02-05-2017 10:14 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by jar
02-05-2017 9:00 AM


Re: H.R. 622 withdrawn
HR 621 & HR 622 were different but equally crazy bills. Looks like both have been withdrawn. Maybe a slight nod to sanity.

How can you tell they've been withdrawn? The link below does not show any action since 1/24/17

https://www.congress.gov/...gress/house-bill/622/all-actions


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson

Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith

Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000


This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by jar, posted 02-05-2017 9:00 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 33 by jar, posted 02-06-2017 6:13 AM NoNukes has responded

    
jar
Member
Posts: 28156
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 33 of 56 (798870)
02-06-2017 6:13 AM
Reply to: Message 32 by NoNukes
02-05-2017 10:14 PM


Re: H.R. 622 withdrawn
I was reporting what was said in quotes attributed to him. I will try to find the news stories again.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by NoNukes, posted 02-05-2017 10:14 PM NoNukes has responded

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NoNukes
Member
Posts: 9192
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 34 of 56 (798934)
02-06-2017 4:18 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by jar
02-06-2017 6:13 AM


Re: H.R. 622 withdrawn
I was reporting what was said in quotes attributed to him. I will try to find the news stories again.

Got it. With that information, statements that Chaffetz was withdrawing the HR 621 were easy to find. I did not find similar information for HR 622 and I did find several articles suggesting that the bill to remove BLM and other federal law enforcement has not been withdrawn.

http://www.denverpost.com/...al-land-transfer-bill-withdrawn

quote:
A little more than [a] week after Utah Congressman Jason Chaffetz introduced a bill calling for the disposal of 3.3 million acres of federal land in 10 Western states, the fifth-term Republican announced late Wednesday on Instagram he was withdrawing H.R. 621.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson

Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith

Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000


This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by jar, posted 02-06-2017 6:13 AM jar has not yet responded

    
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 1318
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 6.3


(5)
Message 35 of 56 (799395)
02-09-2017 8:45 PM


House committee votes to eliminate independent election commission
House committee votes to eliminate independent election commission

I realize this is just a committee vote right now, but we can expect to see red states pass all sorts of new voter registration laws that (Surprise, Surprise), purge the roles of poor, black, Latino, and other minority voters and making it more burdensome and difficult to register. They keep trying to make it difficult to vote in some areas, also.

quote:
A Republican-led House committee voted on Tuesday to eliminate an independent election commission charged with helping states improve their voting systems as Donald Trump erroneously claims widespread voter fraud cost him the popular vote.

The party-line vote came less than two days after the US president vowed to set up a White House commission helmed by the vice-president, Mike Pence, to pursue his accusations of election fraud.


Trump and some of the Republicans think that millions of undocumented aliens, none citizens, care more about America than about half of the citizens, who are qualified to vote. That's 50% of qualified Americans didn't vote or are not even registered to vote.

MILLIONS OF MEXICAN NON-CITIZENS ARE VOTING (what Trump says), WHILE 20 TIMES MORE AMERICAN CITIZENS REFUSED TO VOTE (what that would mean).

So, Are Attorney General Jeff Sessions and the Republican Congress going to protect the voting rights of millions of qualified voters who want to register and who want to vote or are they going to ignore or encourage the barriers to voting that red states have and plan to enact?

Edited by Tanypteryx, : added title.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy


Replies to this message:
 Message 36 by RAZD, posted 02-10-2017 7:52 AM Tanypteryx has acknowledged this reply

    
RAZD
Member
Posts: 18138
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 36 of 56 (799418)
02-10-2017 7:52 AM
Reply to: Message 35 by Tanypteryx
02-09-2017 8:45 PM


SCOTUS on gerrymandering?
So, Are Attorney General Jeff Sessions and the Republican Congress going to protect the voting rights of millions of qualified voters who want to register and who want to vote or are they going to ignore or encourage the barriers to voting that red states have and plan to enact?

I believe the SCOTUS is going to take up a case on gerrymandering.

quote:
U.S. Supreme Court Takes Up Racial Gerrymandering

The U.S. Supreme Court returns Monday to the issue of race in politics when it hears claims that North Carolina and Virginia packed African-Americans into a small number of voting districts to limit their statewide electoral power.

Both cases present challenges to new maps drawn after the 2010 census. In North Carolina the issue is the boundaries for its congressional districts, while in Virginia state legislative districts are contested.

Both states say they face two competing pressures. The Voting Rights Act requires them to consider race when redistricting so that minority voting rights are not diluted. But past Supreme Court rulings have held that race cannot be the predominant factor when the maps are redrawn.

North Carolina is accused of packing African-American voters into two congressional districts — the First, which the challengers describe as "a behemoth sprawling from the rural Coastal Plain to the City of Durham," and the Twelfth, a narrow band than arcs from Charlotte to Greensboro and has been described as the nation's most oddly shaped district.


That should be interesting.

Enjoy


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by Tanypteryx, posted 02-09-2017 8:45 PM Tanypteryx has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
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14174dm
Member
Posts: 87
Joined: 10-12-2015


Message 37 of 56 (799426)
02-10-2017 8:56 AM
Reply to: Message 36 by RAZD
02-10-2017 7:52 AM


Re: SCOTUS on gerrymandering?
Things like this gerrymandering are why politicians are despised. Other than a naked power grab, what would be the justification for the latest districting?

To me, the party (neither are pure in this) drawing these districts is saying three things:
1. We want to be in power (fine, that's the point of the political party).
2. Our policies, actions, etc. won't win the majority of voters.
3. We won't adjust our policies, actions, etc. to win the majority because we are right not the voters.

https://en.wikipedia.org/...lina%27s_congressional_districts

The NC districts for 1973-1982 seem to be the most reasonable. Does anyone know what happened between then and now that produced the travesty of the current districting? Is it just that computer data mining is so detailed now that it supports the wishes of the politicians to split the voters so finely?


This message is a reply to:
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RAZD
Member
Posts: 18138
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 38 of 56 (799429)
02-10-2017 9:36 AM
Reply to: Message 37 by 14174dm
02-10-2017 8:56 AM


Re: SCOTUS on gerrymandering?
The NC districts for 1973-1982 seem to be the most reasonable. Does anyone know what happened between then and now that produced the travesty of the current districting? Is it just that computer data mining is so detailed now that it supports the wishes of the politicians to split the voters so finely?

Two things: republican take over of state house and senate and governor and new census giving new population data. The latter usually triggers district adjustments not wholesale revisions.

To me, the party (neither are pure in this) drawing these districts is saying three things:
1. We want to be in power (fine, that's the point of the political party).
2. Our policies, actions, etc. won't win the majority of voters.
3. We won't adjust our policies, actions, etc. to win the majority because we are right not the voters.

The minimal good I can see from SCOTUS is the requirement for an independent bi-partisan board to do districting.

The maximal good I can see would be a requirement that districts should proportionally reflect the people of the state -- ie population is 10% black districts should have 10% black elected representatives. Of course this would also mean 1/2 representatives should be women ...

My own opinion is that state/federal representatives should be chosen by lottery from the voting public and it should be considered civic duty (like jury duty) to serve 2 years and then return to previous job (like national guard returning from oversea assignments). It might (might) make people more attentive to the political issues.

I also think that the two senators for the state should be elected by ranked voting of all candidates and the two ending up with the most votes are elected.

One can hope. Probably too rational ...

Enjoy

Edited by RAZD, : .


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

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Replies to this message:
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Riggamortis
Member
Posts: 106
From: Australia
Joined: 08-15-2016
Member Rating: 3.1


(1)
Message 39 of 56 (799524)
02-10-2017 7:18 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by RAZD
02-10-2017 9:36 AM


Re: SCOTUS on gerrymandering?
My own opinion is that state/federal representatives should be chosen by lottery from the voting public and it should be considered civic duty (like jury duty) to serve 2 years and then return to previous job (like national guard returning from oversea assignments). It might (might) make people more attentive to the political issues.

I'm more a fan of the idea of merging direct democracy with representative democracy. Basically what we have now but with a mechanism for the public to vote directly on important/contentious issues annually. The public vote doesn't necessarily have to be the final say, we could have the public vote count for 50% of the total vote and the reps vote count for the other 50% for example. This would give the public a way to measure how well their reps are actually representing them and the reps a good measure of public opinion. It would also give the general public more reason to pay attention to political issues and a greater feeling of involvement. My 2 cents.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by RAZD, posted 02-10-2017 9:36 AM RAZD has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 41 by RAZD, posted 02-11-2017 7:07 AM Riggamortis has responded

  
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 9192
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 40 of 56 (799528)
02-10-2017 7:31 PM
Reply to: Message 36 by RAZD
02-10-2017 7:52 AM


Re: SCOTUS on gerrymandering?
I believe the SCOTUS is going to take up a case on gerrymandering.

Historically the SCOTUS has looked on gerrymandering with favor and approval. That combined with the Court's holding on the Voting Rights Act do not leave much room for optimism.

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson

Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith

Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000


This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by RAZD, posted 02-10-2017 7:52 AM RAZD has acknowledged this reply

    
RAZD
Member
Posts: 18138
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 41 of 56 (799556)
02-11-2017 7:07 AM
Reply to: Message 39 by Riggamortis
02-10-2017 7:18 PM


Re: SCOTUS on gerrymandering?
I'm more a fan of the idea of merging direct democracy with representative democracy. Basically what we have now but with a mechanism for the public to vote directly on important/contentious issues annually. ...

Well I'm certainly in favor of public vote as a check on representative votes, and while we have that in theory with the election of representatives and senators, that has rarely been true in practice.

Certainly when it comes to things that directly benefit the politicians, like pay and health benefits and retirement plans, etc., and that these should be subject to the votes of the people paying the bills, not the politicians (Massive conflict of interest).

And I am in favor of having ballot initiatives for things like gun controls and minimum living wages, where there is broad public support but can't seem to get anywhere in congress.

... The public vote doesn't necessarily have to be the final say, we could have the public vote count for 50% of the total vote and the reps vote count for the other 50% for example. This would give the public a way to measure how well their reps are actually representing them and the reps a good measure of public opinion. It would also give the general public more reason to pay attention to political issues and a greater feeling of involvement. My 2 cents.

Well that is sort of done with polling, and that could be more formalized, plus there are town halls where people can discuss things with their reps.

Protesters swarm Chaffetz town hall

Protesters Grill Democratic Senator About His Vote for Trump’s CIA Chief

Using prevote polls could help them avoid confrontational town halls.

Seems people are a bit more involved with politics since the last elections ...

Enjoy


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

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Riggamortis
Member
Posts: 106
From: Australia
Joined: 08-15-2016
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 42 of 56 (799608)
02-11-2017 8:58 PM
Reply to: Message 41 by RAZD
02-11-2017 7:07 AM


Re: SCOTUS on gerrymandering?
Seems people are a bit more involved with politics since the last elections ...

Possibly the only good thing to come of it. I still find it depressing that third party support is so low in the US, given the candidates. We're off topic though so we should find somewhere else if we want to continue this discussion.


This message is a reply to:
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RAZD
Member
Posts: 18138
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 43 of 56 (799630)
02-12-2017 7:32 AM
Reply to: Message 42 by Riggamortis
02-11-2017 8:58 PM


Re: SCOTUS on gerrymandering?
Lemme put it back on topic

Possibly the only good thing to come of it. I still find it depressing that third party support is so low in the US, given the candidates. We're off topic though so we should find somewhere else if we want to continue this discussion.

Because of the way US elections are run it defaults to two parties. Every time a third party does happen to beat one of the established parties that party usually disappears.

This is how the republicans in collusion with the democrats control elections. They set the standards other parties have to meet (15% approval rating to be in debates) and the criteria for being on the ballots.

Republican have managed to take this to such an extreme that it is difficult for anyone of any other party to get elected in republican controlled states.

Enjoy


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

This message is a reply to:
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ringo
Member
Posts: 12711
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 44 of 56 (799637)
02-12-2017 1:31 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by RAZD
02-12-2017 7:32 AM


Re: SCOTUS on gerrymandering?
RAZD writes:

Because of the way US elections are run it defaults to two parties. Every time a third party does happen to beat one of the established parties that party usually disappears.


Just out of curiosity, what is the difference between the US and Canada that allows third parties to be successful in Canada?
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 Message 47 by Theodoric, posted 02-12-2017 2:24 PM ringo has responded

  
Porosity
Member
Posts: 79
From: MT, USA
Joined: 06-15-2013
Member Rating: 4.7


(3)
Message 45 of 56 (799640)
02-12-2017 1:43 PM
Reply to: Message 44 by ringo
02-12-2017 1:31 PM


Re: SCOTUS on gerrymandering?
Just out of curiosity, what is the difference between the US and Canada that allows third parties to be successful in Canada?

private funding. Canada's federal election finance laws put limits on contributions to political parties and candidates. Only individuals — not corporations or trade unions — may donate.

The US system is corrupt and controlled by corporate interest, it's no longer "we the people" it's "us the corporations."

Edited by Porosity, : No reason given.


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