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Author Topic:   Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of evolution.
PaulK
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Posts: 13125
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 1291 of 1311 (816559)
08-06-2017 8:19 AM
Reply to: Message 1290 by JonF
08-06-2017 8:14 AM


Re: this preposterous method
You forget that Faith's judgement of other views is less than rational. Or honest.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 1290 by JonF, posted 08-06-2017 8:14 AM JonF has not yet responded

    
jar
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Posts: 29365
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.3


(1)
Message 1292 of 1311 (816560)
08-06-2017 8:30 AM
Reply to: Message 1289 by Faith
08-06-2017 7:48 AM


God gave animals brains to use.
Faith writes:

I'm probably a lot more educated in all that than most Christians, but I also don't know any Christians who rely only on their own reading of the Bible to form their judgments.

How sad. Anyone who cannot rely on their own reading of the Bible should be feared and pitied. Stop listening to those who tell you what the Bible REALLY says and read what is actually written. They are called apologists for a good reason. They simply make shit up instead of teaching what is really written in the Bible.

What you describe is not education but indoctrination and brainwashing.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1289 by Faith, posted 08-06-2017 7:48 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1293 by Faith, posted 08-06-2017 8:35 AM jar has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 26306
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1293 of 1311 (816561)
08-06-2017 8:35 AM
Reply to: Message 1292 by jar
08-06-2017 8:30 AM


Re: God gave animals brains to use.
Can't win for losing at EvC. Either I'm relying arrogantly on my own private judgment of the Bible or I'm an ignorant fool for considering the opinions of the many preachers and teachers ordained by God to know more than the rest of us.

Since there is a lot of disagreement among them I can hardly be accused of uncritically swallowing a single point of view.

Oh but one way or another I'll be accused of something. There's no way to avoid that here.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1292 by jar, posted 08-06-2017 8:30 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1294 by JonF, posted 08-06-2017 8:59 AM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 1295 by JonF, posted 08-06-2017 9:00 AM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 1296 by JonF, posted 08-06-2017 9:00 AM Faith has responded
 Message 1297 by jar, posted 08-06-2017 9:03 AM Faith has responded

    
JonF
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Posts: 3962
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 1294 of 1311 (816562)
08-06-2017 8:59 AM
Reply to: Message 1293 by Faith
08-06-2017 8:35 AM


Re: God gave animals brains to use.
OK, you'e considered other's interpretations of the Bible. But not reality.

Could your interpretation be wrong?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1293 by Faith, posted 08-06-2017 8:35 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
JonF
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Posts: 3962
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 1295 of 1311 (816563)
08-06-2017 9:00 AM
Reply to: Message 1293 by Faith
08-06-2017 8:35 AM


Re: God gave animals brains to use.
Personally I see no issue with consulting other sources than our own mind. I recommend it.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 1293 by Faith, posted 08-06-2017 8:35 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
JonF
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Posts: 3962
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 1296 of 1311 (816564)
08-06-2017 9:00 AM
Reply to: Message 1293 by Faith
08-06-2017 8:35 AM


Re: God gave animals brains to use.
The Bible is all about evidence because it's history,

Some is history, some isn't.
Other religions just teach you principles,

Really,? What research have performed to support this claim? What other religions' holy books have you studied? Zero?

they aren't interested in proving anything about their claims though they may describe all kinds of supernatural phenomena

I see. when the Bible describes all sorts of supernatural phenomena, it's strong evidence for the reality and nature of your God. When other religions do the same, it's meaningless.

In my experience you aren't asked to believe them, just practice their principles.

Exactly what experience do you have?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1293 by Faith, posted 08-06-2017 8:35 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1300 by Faith, posted 08-06-2017 12:53 PM JonF has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 29365
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 1297 of 1311 (816565)
08-06-2017 9:03 AM
Reply to: Message 1293 by Faith
08-06-2017 8:35 AM


Re: God gave animals brains to use.
Faith writes:

Either I'm relying arrogantly on my own private judgment of the Bible or I'm an ignorant fool for considering the opinions of the many preachers and teachers ordained by God to know more than the rest of us.

First, ordination has nothing to do with what someone knows.

Second, when you believe people that lie to you constantly, tell you things like "The Bible has no errors" or "There are no contradictions in the Bible" or "There was special creation" or "The Earth is young"; things that actually reading what is written in the Bible or looking at reality shows are a best absurdities, willful ignorance or in many cases utter dishonesty, then you are uncritically swallowing a single point of view.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1293 by Faith, posted 08-06-2017 8:35 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1299 by Faith, posted 08-06-2017 12:30 PM jar has responded

  
Coyote
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Posts: 5989
Joined: 01-12-2008
Member Rating: 3.5


(1)
Message 1298 of 1311 (816567)
08-06-2017 11:53 AM
Reply to: Message 1281 by Dredge
08-06-2017 2:07 AM


Trolling
Dredge writes:

Coyote writes:

Dredge writes:

But using the "starting point" of a young earth is no worse than using evolution as a starting point, which is what most atheists do.


There is evidence for one "starting point" but not for the other. In fact, the evidence flatly contradicts a young earth.

The starting point of evolution is a primordial cell that reproduced ... billions of years ago. What evidence is there evidence for that? I suspect it is merely an assumption.

This is a very dishonest post, a complete moving of the goalposts. The topic I responded to was young earth. I pointed out that there is no evidence for a young earth--that it is flatly contradicted by the evidence and is not a valid "starting point."

Now you are back to your high-horse going on about the first cell, while totally ignoring the subject of my post.

You're either a very confused debater, a very dishonest creationist, or a complete troll.*

And in any case you have shown that you have no answer to the lack of evidence for the young earth belief.

* Or all three.

Edited by Coyote, : Added footnote.


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein

In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool

It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle

If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1

"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.

Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1281 by Dredge, posted 08-06-2017 2:07 AM Dredge has not yet responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 26306
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1299 of 1311 (816568)
08-06-2017 12:30 PM
Reply to: Message 1297 by jar
08-06-2017 9:03 AM


Re: God gave animals brains to use.
I'm not talking about human "ordination" which is what you seem to be talking about. When God ordains someone He calls him to a specific task such as preacher or teacher, equipping him with all the necessary education for the task.

What makes you think I or anyone just believes such statements as you claim we do? I suspect you don't bother to learn anything and it certainly shows, but most of us study for ourselves what we come to believe to be true.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1297 by jar, posted 08-06-2017 9:03 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1307 by jar, posted 08-06-2017 2:21 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 26306
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1300 of 1311 (816569)
08-06-2017 12:53 PM
Reply to: Message 1296 by JonF
08-06-2017 9:00 AM


evidence vs teachings
When I started investigating religions before I was a believer in anything, a project that eventually led to my becoming a Protestant, I read a ton of stuff from other religions, Hinduism and Buddhism in particular, a lot of Catholic mysticism, also books about Gnosticism and other occultic and cultic stuff. I had long conversations with practitioners of Buddhism and followers of Hindu gurus.

The Bible describes supernatural events in the context of history, which is what makes it evidence-based. The Bible isn't ALL history, but the parts that are history are intended to be evidence of God through His doings in the world. The parts that are teachings and other forms of literature are not meant to be evidence, and since other religions are primarily teachings they aren't evidence-based.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1296 by JonF, posted 08-06-2017 9:00 AM JonF has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1301 by PaulK, posted 08-06-2017 1:12 PM Faith has responded

    
PaulK
Member
Posts: 13125
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.8


(1)
Message 1301 of 1311 (816570)
08-06-2017 1:12 PM
Reply to: Message 1300 by Faith
08-06-2017 12:53 PM


Re: evidence vs teachings
quote:

No, dumkopf. The Bible describes supernatural events in the context of history, which is what makes it evidence-based.

No, it makes it like other ancient writings, and no more evidence-based. Especially when the "history" is myth or legend, and all of Genesis comfortably fits into those categories.

quote:

The Bible isn't ALL history, but the parts that are history are intended to be evidence of God through His doings in the world.

They certainly aren't good evidence for that. Not least because they aren't very trustworthy as historical documents - even the better parts like the Books of Kings.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1300 by Faith, posted 08-06-2017 12:53 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1302 by Faith, posted 08-06-2017 1:14 PM PaulK has responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 26306
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1302 of 1311 (816571)
08-06-2017 1:14 PM
Reply to: Message 1301 by PaulK
08-06-2017 1:12 PM


Re: evidence vs teachings
The other ancient religious are all obviously mythical, the Bible is not.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 1301 by PaulK, posted 08-06-2017 1:12 PM PaulK has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1303 by PaulK, posted 08-06-2017 1:24 PM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 1305 by Porosity, posted 08-06-2017 2:06 PM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 1306 by JonF, posted 08-06-2017 2:12 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
PaulK
Member
Posts: 13125
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.8


(1)
Message 1303 of 1311 (816572)
08-06-2017 1:24 PM
Reply to: Message 1302 by Faith
08-06-2017 1:14 PM


Re: evidence vs teachings
The Creation stories, the Flood, Babel are all obviously mythical. But if you think other ancient writings only feature the Gods in myths you are mistaken.

To give just one example, isn't the siege of Troy at least as historical as Joshua's invasion? Doesn't the Iliad contain genuine information about the times it concerns (e.g. The use of boars-tusk helmets)


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1302 by Faith, posted 08-06-2017 1:14 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
ringo
Member
Posts: 13644
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.3


(1)
Message 1304 of 1311 (816573)
08-06-2017 1:28 PM
Reply to: Message 1276 by Faith
08-05-2017 10:48 PM


Re: this preposterous method
Faith writes:

Everybody claims their view is the true one. So do you.


No I do not. I acknowledge that my view depends on evidence. You, on the other hand, claim to have special importation from God to recognize what is absolutely true.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 1276 by Faith, posted 08-05-2017 10:48 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
Porosity
Member
Posts: 155
From: MT, USA
Joined: 06-15-2013
Member Rating: 5.8


(2)
Message 1305 of 1311 (816574)
08-06-2017 2:06 PM
Reply to: Message 1302 by Faith
08-06-2017 1:14 PM


Re: evidence vs teachings
The other ancient religious are all obviously mythical, the Bible is not.

You are atheist to all other gods. If you were born in Afghanistan you would be saying the exact same thing about the Koran.

You are living proof that your beliefs about Gods and religions comes from the location of your lineage. It is powerful evidence of indoctrination and how it leads you down the road of racism, tribalism, deception and denial of reality.

Edited by Porosity, : Doh!


This message is a reply to:
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