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Author Topic:   Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of evolution.
Faith
Inactive Member


Message 1261 of 1311 (816504)
08-05-2017 11:48 AM
Reply to: Message 1258 by Tangle
08-05-2017 11:33 AM


Re: this preposterous method
Faith writes:

But lemme see, how might I try to answer this? According to your reasoning the truth is to be found in the greater numbers of those who disbelieve in the Bible?

It was your point Chuck, not mine.

"The Bible has been believed by millions for the last two millennia"

But one imagines that the point of it was to persuade? If so it's failed. Christianity is not even a majority belief. And in the developed world it's in decline.

The point of pointing out that millions have believed was specifically to counter your notion that to have any validity it should be understandable by all. My point was that it IS understandable by plenty, by millions, even billions really in the end, and has in fact promoted great good in the world as a result. It wasn't a statement about numbers as such but a way of saying obviously it is understandable and in a way that makes a difference in the world. It isn't exactly that the "point of it was to persuade" but that it is designed to persuade exactly those whom God wants to persuade, as Pascal's comment explains.

Even its being in decline is going to demonstrate its truth in the end, especially if it's an indication that we are approaching the last of the last days, about which scripture has a lot to say.

Faith writes:

There are many here who think they understand it but don't.

Exactly my point. Why bother leaving this vitally important story in the hands of fallible man? Why not write it himself?

I answered that. So my answer doesn't persuade you. What else is new?

It's actually done and is doing exactly what God intended it to do.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1258 by Tangle, posted 08-05-2017 11:33 AM Tangle has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1265 by Tangle, posted 08-05-2017 12:01 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
Faith
Inactive Member


Message 1262 of 1311 (816506)
08-05-2017 11:51 AM
Reply to: Message 1260 by JonF
08-05-2017 11:44 AM


Re: this preposterous method
So, does it matter how many people believe or disbelieve?

Not in itself, no, as I just explained to Tangle.

In the OT God says He always has a "remnant" who remain true even when the majority have gone off the rails. That was true then and has to be true now as well.

The point of mentioning the numbers was, as I explained, to show that the Bible IS understandable and by enough people to do great good in the world.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1260 by JonF, posted 08-05-2017 11:44 AM JonF has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1263 by ringo, posted 08-05-2017 11:53 AM Faith has responded
 Message 1267 by JonF, posted 08-05-2017 12:50 PM Faith has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 13715
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.8


(1)
Message 1263 of 1311 (816507)
08-05-2017 11:53 AM
Reply to: Message 1262 by Faith
08-05-2017 11:51 AM


Re: this preposterous method
Faith writes:

In the OT God says He always has a "remnant" who remain true even when the majority have gone off the rails.


The problem is that the ones who are off the rails think they're the remnant.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 1262 by Faith, posted 08-05-2017 11:51 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1264 by Faith, posted 08-05-2017 11:54 AM ringo has responded

  
Faith
Inactive Member


Message 1264 of 1311 (816508)
08-05-2017 11:54 AM
Reply to: Message 1263 by ringo
08-05-2017 11:53 AM


Re: this preposterous method
Ha ha. So you say. Time will tell.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 1263 by ringo, posted 08-05-2017 11:53 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1266 by ringo, posted 08-05-2017 12:10 PM Faith has responded
 Message 1268 by JonF, posted 08-05-2017 12:51 PM Faith has responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 5097
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.2


(1)
Message 1265 of 1311 (816510)
08-05-2017 12:01 PM
Reply to: Message 1261 by Faith
08-05-2017 11:48 AM


Re: this preposterous method
Faith writes:

It isn't exactly that the "point of it was to persuade" but that it is designed to persuade exactly those whom God wants to persuade, as Pascal's comment explains.

It is exactly that it's designed to persuade - it's god's marketing material. His PR sheep are supposed to market the 'good news.'

It isn't exactly that the "point of it was to persuade" but that it is designed to persuade exactly those whom God wants to persuade, as Pascal's comment explains.

Well that's convenient - if the bible doen't persuade me, then god didn't want to persuade me! What self-serving drivel.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1261 by Faith, posted 08-05-2017 11:48 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 13715
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 1266 of 1311 (816511)
08-05-2017 12:10 PM
Reply to: Message 1264 by Faith
08-05-2017 11:54 AM


Re: this preposterous method
faith writes:

So you say.


So the Bible says:
quote:
Proverbs 15:28 The heart of the righteous studieth to answer: but the mouth of the wicked poureth out evil things.

More study, less mouth, and you might have a clue.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 1264 by Faith, posted 08-05-2017 11:54 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1270 by Faith, posted 08-05-2017 1:14 PM ringo has responded

  
JonF
Member
Posts: 3969
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 1267 of 1311 (816513)
08-05-2017 12:50 PM
Reply to: Message 1262 by Faith
08-05-2017 11:51 AM


Re: this preposterous method
Which has nothing to do with the question of authorship.

Of course you've admitted it's understandable by far fewer than all. Well under half.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1262 by Faith, posted 08-05-2017 11:51 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1271 by Faith, posted 08-05-2017 1:16 PM JonF has responded

  
JonF
Member
Posts: 3969
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 1268 of 1311 (816514)
08-05-2017 12:51 PM
Reply to: Message 1264 by Faith
08-05-2017 11:54 AM


Re: this preposterous method
Time may tell.

Today there is no convincing evidence.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1264 by Faith, posted 08-05-2017 11:54 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1269 by Faith, posted 08-05-2017 1:09 PM JonF has responded

  
Faith
Inactive Member


Message 1269 of 1311 (816515)
08-05-2017 1:09 PM
Reply to: Message 1268 by JonF
08-05-2017 12:51 PM


Re: this preposterous method
All I can do is say the same thing again: there certainly is a lot of convincing evidence or the multiple millions I mentioned earlier would not have been convinced. Other religions, by the way, don't have any evidence or require any, unless you happen to get waylaid by one of their demon deities. Christianity does rest on evidence, but the contemporary "enlightened" fallen mind rejects it. All the miracles in the Bible are evidence for starters.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1268 by JonF, posted 08-05-2017 12:51 PM JonF has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1273 by JonF, posted 08-05-2017 2:31 PM Faith has responded

  
Faith
Inactive Member


Message 1270 of 1311 (816516)
08-05-2017 1:14 PM
Reply to: Message 1266 by ringo
08-05-2017 12:10 PM


Re: this preposterous method
Putting good for evil and evil for good as you are doing is a very dangerous thing to do, are you unable to make a case without the personal accusation?

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1266 by ringo, posted 08-05-2017 12:10 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1272 by ringo, posted 08-05-2017 1:21 PM Faith has responded

  
Faith
Inactive Member


Message 1271 of 1311 (816517)
08-05-2017 1:16 PM
Reply to: Message 1267 by JonF
08-05-2017 12:50 PM


Re: this preposterous method
Gosh, maybe it doesn't have anything to do with the question of authority because I wasn't addressing the question of authority at that point. Golly gosh. And again you are arguing the numbers, as if majority determined truth, while I am not.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 1267 by JonF, posted 08-05-2017 12:50 PM JonF has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1274 by JonF, posted 08-05-2017 2:38 PM Faith has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 13715
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 1272 of 1311 (816518)
08-05-2017 1:21 PM
Reply to: Message 1270 by Faith
08-05-2017 1:14 PM


Re: this preposterous method
Faith writes:

Putting good for evil and evil for good as you are doing is a very dangerous thing to do, are you unable to make a case without the personal accusation?


Your own posts accuse you. You claim infallibility in interpreting the Bible. You're idolizing yourself.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 1270 by Faith, posted 08-05-2017 1:14 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1276 by Faith, posted 08-05-2017 10:48 PM ringo has responded

  
JonF
Member
Posts: 3969
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 1273 of 1311 (816523)
08-05-2017 2:31 PM
Reply to: Message 1269 by Faith
08-05-2017 1:09 PM


Re: this preposterous method
And there certainly isn't enough convincing evidence to persuade many more millions. The number of believers doesn't establish truth. As you acknowledged.

On what facts do you base your claim that "religions, by the way, don't have any evidence or require any, unless you happen to get waylaid by one of their demon deities."? Or is another of your fantasies not based on any reality?

I can't figure out what you mean by "unless you happen to get waylaid by one of their demon deities". You are obviously acknowledging the existence of other deities.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1269 by Faith, posted 08-05-2017 1:09 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1277 by Faith, posted 08-05-2017 10:53 PM JonF has responded

  
JonF
Member
Posts: 3969
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 1274 of 1311 (816525)
08-05-2017 2:38 PM
Reply to: Message 1271 by Faith
08-05-2017 1:16 PM


Re: this preposterous method
No, I am explicitly saying that numbers don't determine truth, and you're flip-flopping between "numbers don't determine truth" and "so many people have been convinced it must be true.

I didn't say" authority", I said "authorship", meaning authorship of the Bible. If your sight is so poor you can't tell the difference you should learn a little Christian humility before ranting like that.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1271 by Faith, posted 08-05-2017 1:16 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1278 by Faith, posted 08-05-2017 10:54 PM JonF has responded

  
Adminnemooseus
Director
Posts: 3827
Joined: 09-26-2002


(1)
Message 1275 of 1311 (816532)
08-05-2017 5:14 PM


Going into summation mode in 24 hours
I'm not going to try to find the last time the topic theme was touched upon.

If there's some theme in here you want to further explore, I suggest proposing a new topic.

Adminnemooseus


Or something like that.

Replies to this message:
 Message 1285 by Dredge, posted 08-06-2017 2:42 AM Adminnemooseus has acknowledged this reply

    
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