Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9164 total)
3 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,909 Year: 4,166/9,624 Month: 1,037/974 Week: 364/286 Day: 7/13 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Christianity... Destiny
Stile
Member
Posts: 4295
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


Message 10 of 53 (843256)
11-15-2018 12:09 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Porkncheese
11-13-2018 7:29 AM


Re: Focus On One Topic
Porkncheese writes:
God knows the future right?
So Judas turns Jesus into the Roman's for gold and later hangs himself out of guilt.
This would send a man to hell. But Jesus himself knew what Judas was going to do.
Doesn't seem fair that Judas goes to hell for something that's out of his control.
The other example I will use is Adam and Eve. How does that work wen God already has it written in stone.
I think your issues are right... but it depends on who "writes it in stone."
That is... if God creates everyone, knowing full well what they will do when created... then God is writing it in stone.
However, if God creates everyone, but doesn't know what anyone will do. And then people write their own decisions in stone... then God looks into the future after His creation event at the stone-writing... well, I don't see a problem with that.
Directly applicable to your example:
If God created Judas and knew Judas was going to do that, then it's a problem for religion.
If God created Judas, didn't know Judas was going to do that... then Jesus looks into the future (that Judas wrote)... and is sad for Judas' decision... then it's not a problem for religion.
The only issue is... when it's "not a problem" for religion, that's only in regards to Free Will. It then creates a problem of God "knowing everything" because God would not have known what Judas was going to do at some point before Judas' creation. I don't see an issue with that at all... but certain religious-types might. Depends on how tied their religion is to the idea that God must know all things at all times.
Edited by Stile, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Porkncheese, posted 11-13-2018 7:29 AM Porkncheese has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by Phat, posted 11-15-2018 12:17 PM Stile has replied

  
Stile
Member
Posts: 4295
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


Message 24 of 53 (843417)
11-17-2018 1:55 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by Phat
11-15-2018 12:17 PM


Re: Focus On One Topic
Phat writes:
I still don't understand why specifically that foreknowledge is a problem. Let's assume that Jesus is eternal past, present, and future. Thus God(Jesus, in this example) is present at every moment that a human makes a decision. This does not mean that God creates the decision...He is only aware of it.
If God didn't create the decision... then the person did?
If the person created the decision... then there is some point-in-time that God did not know about the decision (it wasn't create yet).
So explain why ultimate foreknowledge is a problem?
If there if some point-in-time that God didn't know about the decision... then God doesn't have "ultimate" foreknowledge.
That's not a problem in and of itself. I think God would prefer the idea of free will over "ultimate" foreknowledge.
But I suppose that's up to everyone's individual opinion on what their idea of God should be.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by Phat, posted 11-15-2018 12:17 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by Phat, posted 11-17-2018 3:56 PM Stile has seen this message but not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024