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Author Topic:   Are thoughts transcendant?
Larni
Member
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 35 of 142 (424191)
09-26-2007 5:25 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by Kitsune
09-22-2007 2:30 PM


LindaLou writes:
We know pretty well how electricity behaves when it runs through a cable. But how it functions at low levels in the human body-? Largely a mystery still, to science, though those who do e.g. reiki or acupuncture would say they know one or two things.
I think you will find that the electrochemical behaviour of nerves are pretty well understood in terms of ion pumps and the like. Any A level biology book could fill you in pretty quickly.
LindaLou writes:
If you are full of negativity then you draw negative events into your life, and the converse is true for positive thoughts.
It's certainly true that negative cognition leads to negative affect; but what you imply here is nothing short of magical thinking.
LindaLou writes:
It's likely that many of us here have had experiences where we've been thinking about a certain person, maybe someone we haven't thought about in a long time, and suddenly the phone rings and we find we are talking to them. Some people have dreams or visions of friends or loved ones when they are in a crisis or are dying.
This is evidence of coincidence: you have to remeber the millions of times people think or dream about loved ones and absolutly nothing happens. If telepathy were true it would work: it has never been shown to work, ever.
LindaLou writes:
Does this mean that thoughts are spiritual in nature? Or does it mean that some mechanism is at work in the physical world which science is currently at a loss to understand?
Untill you can provide evidence the answer is a big fat no.
If you can provide evidence I suggest you get on the 'phone to James Randi and claim you 1,000,000 prize.
Self conscious thought appears to be an excellent survival mechanism. Why paint it magic?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by Kitsune, posted 09-22-2007 2:30 PM Kitsune has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by Kitsune, posted 09-26-2007 5:47 AM Larni has replied

  
Larni
Member
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 36 of 142 (424192)
09-26-2007 5:28 AM
Reply to: Message 15 by Hyroglyphx
09-22-2007 3:02 PM


Re: Mary's Room experiment
Nem writes:
The hypothetical scenario asks us to think of a highly intelligent scientist named Mary. Mary, though, has been locked away in a color deprived world her whole life. Her studies include neurophysiology, vision and electromagnetics, to include the study of color themselves. So she has an intellectual understanding of something like color, but has never experienced color. Eventually Mary is released from her room and experiences colors for the first time.
You would have to learn to discriminate colours in a meaningfull way, just like blind from birth people who have their sight restored have to learn how to integrate their new found perceptual system.

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 Message 15 by Hyroglyphx, posted 09-22-2007 3:02 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
Larni
Member
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 37 of 142 (424193)
09-26-2007 5:31 AM
Reply to: Message 20 by nator
09-22-2007 7:05 PM


Nator writes:
Actually, I would say that it would not be terribly difficult to design a social psychology study that would measure such a thing, i.e. people who are pessimists tend to perceive things as negative, thus would tend to notice and classify things as negative, and also repel positive people, and vice versa. In fact, I am willing to bet that such studies exist right now.
Read any thing by Aaron T. Beck and you would see that's exactly what's found and is the basis for CBT.
ABE: Nator I have been replying to posts in sequence and found that I seem to be echoing you quite accurately. From this I conclude that we must have some psychic connection. Shall we go to Mr Randi and claim our prize?
Edited by Larni, : No reason given.
Edited by Larni, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by nator, posted 09-22-2007 7:05 PM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 53 by nator, posted 10-15-2007 6:22 PM Larni has not replied

  
Larni
Member
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 38 of 142 (424194)
09-26-2007 5:37 AM
Reply to: Message 26 by Kitsune
09-23-2007 6:52 AM


Re: Mary's Room experiment
LindaLou writes:
Do you think Carl Jung was mistaken about meaningful coincidences?
Jung (like Freud) pulled many non sensical theories out of his arse. None are based on evidence based research.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by Kitsune, posted 09-23-2007 6:52 AM Kitsune has not replied

  
Larni
Member
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 41 of 142 (424203)
09-26-2007 8:17 AM
Reply to: Message 39 by Kitsune
09-26-2007 5:47 AM


LindaLou writes:
Do you know of any sources I might look into that take a layperson's approach to the subject? I would be interested.
Seriously, an A level human biology text book is more than adequate to give you the bare bones of all things neurological.
The thing is the more you learn the more you listen to what people come out with and say "that's obviously crap".
LinsaLou writes:
I also just have a very deep need to believe that there's more to life than what we see.
This need distorts your perceptions. This is where bias creeps in. We can't be intellectually honest unless we control for bias and ones learns all about it in statical reasoning.
Layperson logic is almost always burdened with unseen bias as we draw conclusions based on what we feel is right. This is hardly ever an accurate way to draw conclusions.
Would you say "I feel this man is guilty of murder?". No, you would do your best to examine evidence in a systematic way and reject what you feel in favour of the balance of evidence.
LindaLou writes:
Every fibre of my being says no, there's more to life than that. I listen to that voice. I believe it's right. I have no proof of course, but sometimes I think that's OK.
Again, would you use this logic if it was in a court of law?
Is it ok now?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by Kitsune, posted 09-26-2007 5:47 AM Kitsune has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 42 by Kitsune, posted 09-26-2007 9:06 AM Larni has replied

  
Larni
Member
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 43 of 142 (424238)
09-26-2007 10:48 AM
Reply to: Message 42 by Kitsune
09-26-2007 9:06 AM


LindaLou writes:
I would be perpetually depressed if I thought that all there is to the world, is what we perceive.
Why is that? What is there in the world that we cannnot percieve? Do you imply that you would rather adopt a feel good conclusion that is wrong rather than an unpleasent conclusion that is correct.
I used to believe that climate change was not true; it reduced my anxiety to believe so. There came a point however when the evidence I examined rendered my belief irrelevent.
Reality has no recognition of what we believe and the only thing that can really challenge what we believe is hard evidence.
A really good book to read on this is 'The Demon Haunted World' by the late great Carl Sagan.
LindaLou writes:
Are there not evolutionists here who are also theists? What do they say about applying skepticism?
Yup. I think Jar is a good example on the boards.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by Kitsune, posted 09-26-2007 9:06 AM Kitsune has not replied

  
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