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Author | Topic: Second Law of Thermodynamics | |||||||||||||||||||
Modulous Member Posts: 7801 From: Manchester, UK Joined: |
I just wondering how evolutionist can explain the second law of thermodynamics when evolution says that the universe is evolving 'upwards' and the 2nd law says that things are backsliding? Fortunately for evolutionists that's not what either idea is saying. Ley me copy/paste a 'simple' explanation I made on another forum about a year ago:
quote: I've tremendously simplified the issue here, and that might lead to some misunderstandings. The bottom line is that the laws of thermodynamics are not something that can be easily summed up in one sentence. That would be like saying that the law of gravity is 'what goes up must come down'. Such little frazes help illustrate to us what the law is, but they aren't the law in themselves.
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Modulous Member Posts: 7801 From: Manchester, UK Joined: |
1) Without an intellligence based, designed energy transducing process converting random solar energy into a usuable electrical form no process can produce a negentropic effect. Question: What has more workable energy, water at near absolute zero or a cloud? I contend that solar energy acting on a body of maximum entropic water (ice) can lead to water with less entropy: Liquid water and clouds. The later has workable energy, right?
Before photosynthesis there was no process to convert the suns energy into a form useful to any life to non-life process or to any early negentropic event such as monomers to polymers of amino acids... etc. Amino acids in hot water form proteinoids, protenoids which have been in hot water then cooled form microspheres. Microspheres grow, and 'replicate', and can form nucelic acids and polypeptides.
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Modulous Member Posts: 7801 From: Manchester, UK Joined: |
First we were tallking about processes that make and sustain life which are both physical, chemical and informational.. all of which have distinctly thermodynamic considerations. Does transferring random noise over wires get considered thermodynamically different than transferring Shakespeare assuming the same amount of energy is transferred in the same time period?
However there is no complexity whatsoever just change in order. Water carries no informational code like DNA. We are not talking about infodynamics but thermodynamics. The two have analogies but they are not the same. As such information is out of scope of this discussion. Feel free to open a new topic on it, its an interesting subject. We are talking about energy transfers, and problems that evolution might face. So we need to find an energy transfer that is forbidden by THERMOdynamics.
Water of course has and is used as a working medium for superheated steam and the production of electricity. What's your point? What's yours? Mine is that
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Modulous Member Posts: 7801 From: Manchester, UK Joined: |
Yeah - I've heard that before. Hell, I debated with the great and glorious Jerry.
The equations and maths has many analogies but the problem seems to arise when people (esp IDers) try and cross the terms over. I'm no expert in either area, but I can smell something fishy when the bass is frying.
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Modulous Member Posts: 7801 From: Manchester, UK Joined: |
There have been some great discussion on this.
Try:
Message 168 or
Message 151 both threads are still open, so you can still contribute!
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Modulous Member Posts: 7801 From: Manchester, UK Joined: |
I never said they were the same. The Braxton paper makes the differences clear and the analogies clear. It also accounts for the entropic work necessary to order and sequence the optically pure acids into chains suitable for carrying the genetic code or instuections/information necessary for life as we observe it and theoretically contenance it. Chemistry unaided by codes and interpretive processes cannever explain the operation of a human cell. Codes and interpretive systems never arise randomly. Most of the above is information related and would be a good start in an thread based on same. PNT? Do you have any information (heh) with regards to some kind of energy transfer that is forbidden by thermodynamics that is required for evolution?
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