Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 114 (8796 total)
Current session began: 
Page Loaded: 10-22-2017 10:32 PM
353 online now:
DC85, DrJones*, Faith (3 members, 350 visitors)
Chatting now:  Chat room empty
Newest Member: jaufre
Upcoming Birthdays: willietern
Happy Birthday: Flyer75
Post Volume:
Total: 821,058 Year: 25,664/21,208 Month: 1,291/2,338 Week: 48/364 Day: 48/57 Hour: 0/1

Announcements: Reporting debate problems OR discussing moderation actions/inactions


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
1
2345Next
Author Topic:   Black Holes Proof of Literal Hell?
techristian
Member (Idle past 1663 days)
Posts: 60
Joined: 04-03-2002


(1)
Message 1 of 71 (8223)
04-05-2002 8:05 PM


Think about it. Time stops there. Endless darkness because light can't escape AND intense gravity that may even hold spirit beings.

Think about it.

Dan
http://musicinit.com


Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by Percy, posted 04-05-2002 9:40 PM techristian has not yet responded
 Message 3 by Mister Pamboli, posted 04-06-2002 12:14 AM techristian has responded
 Message 4 by joz, posted 04-06-2002 1:20 AM techristian has not yet responded
 Message 10 by nator, posted 04-07-2002 8:38 AM techristian has not yet responded
 Message 12 by scarletohairy, posted 05-08-2002 2:49 PM techristian has not yet responded
 Message 20 by 1.61803, posted 05-17-2004 12:26 PM techristian has not yet responded
 Message 29 by arachnophilia, posted 07-23-2004 2:58 AM techristian has not yet responded
 Message 39 by jokun, posted 12-15-2004 11:41 AM techristian has not yet responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 16036
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 2 of 71 (8225)
04-05-2002 9:40 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by techristian
04-05-2002 8:05 PM


While there is little doubt that the interior of a black hole would be extremely antogonistic toward life, if you asked Christians what hell was like I doubt they'd describe a place where time is stopped, light doesn't shine and the gravity is extreme.

By the way, the gravity at the center of a black hole is zero.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by techristian, posted 04-05-2002 8:05 PM techristian has not yet responded

    
Mister Pamboli
Member (Idle past 5138 days)
Posts: 634
From: Washington, USA
Joined: 12-10-2001


Message 3 of 71 (8229)
04-06-2002 12:14 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by techristian
04-05-2002 8:05 PM


quote:
Originally posted by techristian:
Think about it. Time stops there. Endless darkness because light can't escape AND intense gravity that may even hold spirit beings.

Think about it.


I'm thinking about it.

Time stopped = experience of suffering stopped. Doesn't sound too hellish?

Light can't escape = black hole filled with light, not endless darkness.

Intense gravity may even hold spirit beings? What is a spirit being and in what ways would gravity affect them? What other physical laws would affect them?

I suggest you think about it a little more


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by techristian, posted 04-05-2002 8:05 PM techristian has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by scarletohairy, posted 05-08-2002 2:54 PM Mister Pamboli has not yet responded
 Message 16 by Lammy, posted 05-17-2004 2:48 AM Mister Pamboli has not yet responded
 Message 42 by techristian, posted 10-11-2007 10:49 AM Mister Pamboli has not yet responded

  
joz
Inactive Member


Message 4 of 71 (8234)
04-06-2002 1:20 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by techristian
04-05-2002 8:05 PM


quote:
Originally posted by techristian:
Think about it. Time stops there. Endless darkness because light can't escape AND intense gravity that may even hold spirit beings.

Gravity only acts on massive objects (not massive huge, massive as in possessing mass) "spirit beings" do not have mass by definition, ergo they will not be drawn in to a gravitational well no matter how strong...

Herein endeth the lesson...

As you said...

quote:
Think about it.

Preferably before posting.....

(Added by edit - Damm just noticed that Percy made the same point before me sorry for the parrot impression)...

[This message has been edited by joz, 04-06-2002]


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by techristian, posted 04-05-2002 8:05 PM techristian has not yet responded

  
techristian
Member (Idle past 1663 days)
Posts: 60
Joined: 04-03-2002


Message 5 of 71 (8240)
04-06-2002 2:17 PM


However there were some experiments done. Just before death and right after death the weight of the subject was measured. There was a small change in mass. The "spirit" has been compared to a wind or breath of air. I will try to get more data on this experiment.

As to time stopping or being distorted, this would create eternity. The clock would never move and the being would be stuck there.

Dan
http://musicinit.com/pvideos.html


Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by Percy, posted 04-06-2002 3:49 PM techristian has not yet responded
 Message 14 by RavingDave, posted 05-09-2002 6:06 PM techristian has not yet responded

  
techristian
Member (Idle past 1663 days)
Posts: 60
Joined: 04-03-2002


Message 6 of 71 (8241)
04-06-2002 2:38 PM


Here is a link to some discussions on the mass of a soul (spirit).

http://advogato.org/article/385.html


  
Percy
Member
Posts: 16036
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 7 of 71 (8245)
04-06-2002 3:49 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by techristian
04-06-2002 2:17 PM



techristian writes:
However there were some experiments done. Just before death and right after death the weight of the subject was measured. There was a small change in mass. The "spirit" has been compared to a wind or breath of air. I will try to get more data on this experiment.

I think most people on the evolution side are going to dismiss this out of hand. A person's mass changes simply by inhaling and exhaling, then there's evaporation, sublimation and excrescence. Establishing a living human being's weight to any significant degree of accuracy would seem a fruitless task. Decay processes take over immediately at death, and gas is part of the decay product. Not to mention that hard scientific evidence for a soul would be announced on the front page of the New York Times, not hidden in obscure discussion boards.


As to time stopping or being distorted, this would create eternity. The clock would never move and the being would be stuck there.

Black holes are not eternal. The Hawking Radiation causes eventual evaporation.

But you seem to be losing sight of your original point, which I think was that black holes may be the Christian hell. Besides that your analogies didn't stand up, a volcanically active planet (or moon like Europa) with actual brimstone seems a better candidate.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by techristian, posted 04-06-2002 2:17 PM techristian has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 36 by The Dread Dormammu, posted 12-09-2004 9:15 PM Percy has not yet responded

    
techristian
Member (Idle past 1663 days)
Posts: 60
Joined: 04-03-2002


Message 8 of 71 (8247)
04-06-2002 4:14 PM


The experiment info link that I listed says that the experiment took evaporation and breath into account. I mean this whole thing isn't even important to ME. I don't need to even believe it, but others always want some kind of TANGIBLE SCIENTIFIC PROOF (even though evolution was originally called a "theory". I also remember reading something about the gravity at the center of the earth but can't quite remember it now. The whole point that I'm trying to make is that Hell is not only real, but plausible.

I was really active in this area of discussion from 1987-1990 and I must get out my books on cosmology to brush up and make more concise statements. Back then I started a BBS thread that said that I could prove the bible with science. I saved all of my old posts. I'll dig them up to refresh my memory.

Dan


Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by Percy, posted 04-06-2002 4:47 PM techristian has not yet responded
 Message 11 by joz, posted 04-07-2002 3:38 PM techristian has not yet responded
 Message 45 by Peg, posted 09-21-2009 7:25 PM techristian has not yet responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 16036
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 9 of 71 (8248)
04-06-2002 4:47 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by techristian
04-06-2002 4:14 PM



techristian writes:
The experiment info link that I listed...

You provided a link to a discussion, not to information about the results of experimentation.


I don't need to even believe it, but others always want some kind of TANGIBLE SCIENTIFIC PROOF.

Proofs are the province of mathematics, not science. In science, think of "proof" as just another way of saying "persuasive evidence."


The whole point that I'm trying to make is that Hell is not only real, but plausible.

How does the existence of unsurvivable places make a religious concept like hell plausible as an existential reality?

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by techristian, posted 04-06-2002 4:14 PM techristian has not yet responded

    
nator
Member (Idle past 2203 days)
Posts: 12961
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 10 of 71 (8261)
04-07-2002 8:38 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by techristian
04-05-2002 8:05 PM


quote:
Originally posted by techristian:
Think about it. Time stops there. Endless darkness because light can't escape AND intense gravity that may even hold spirit beings.

Think about it.

Dan
http://musicinit.com


Except isn't hell supposed to be a firey pit of everlasting burning?

Oh, and where do you get the idea that black holes "may even hold spirit beings"?? How do you tell if "spirit beings" are able to be "held" without any evidence that "spirit beings" exist in the first place. You can't discuss their properties and limitations without defining them first. Please do so.

And why would "intense gravity", "endless darkness", or "stopped time" make any difference to a "spirit being" anyway?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by techristian, posted 04-05-2002 8:05 PM techristian has not yet responded

    
joz
Inactive Member


Message 11 of 71 (8274)
04-07-2002 3:38 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by techristian
04-06-2002 4:14 PM


quote:
Originally posted by techristian:
The whole point that I'm trying to make is that Hell is not only real, but plausible.

On a purely pedantic point how could it be real and implausible?

Surely things that are real (and demonstreably so) are by definition plausible.....


This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by techristian, posted 04-06-2002 4:14 PM techristian has not yet responded

  
scarletohairy
Inactive Member


Message 12 of 71 (9374)
05-08-2002 2:49 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by techristian
04-05-2002 8:05 PM


quote:
Originally posted by techristian:
Think about it. Time stops there. Endless darkness because light can't escape AND intense gravity that may even hold spirit beings.

Think about it.

Dan
http://musicinit.com


You bet I think about it. Why, I've been in any number of committee meetings like that.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by techristian, posted 04-05-2002 8:05 PM techristian has not yet responded

  
scarletohairy
Inactive Member


Message 13 of 71 (9375)
05-08-2002 2:54 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by Mister Pamboli
04-06-2002 12:14 AM


quote:
Originally posted by Mister Pamboli:
quote:
Originally posted by techristian:
Think about it. Time stops there. Endless darkness because light can't escape AND intense gravity that may even hold spirit beings.

Think about it.


I'm thinking about it.

Time stopped = experience of suffering stopped. Doesn't sound too hellish?

Light can't escape = black hole filled with light, not endless darkness.

Intense gravity may even hold spirit beings? What is a spirit being and in what ways would gravity affect them? What other physical laws would affect them?

I suggest you think about it a little more


And of course, if gravity DID affect something called spirit beings, it would pull them apart on the way in. Or are spirit beings infinitely stretchable? If a black hole is the terminus of a wormhole, could that be purgatory?

[This message has been edited by scarletohairy, 05-08-2002]


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Mister Pamboli, posted 04-06-2002 12:14 AM Mister Pamboli has not yet responded

  
RavingDave
Inactive Member


Message 14 of 71 (9437)
05-09-2002 6:06 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by techristian
04-06-2002 2:17 PM


TechnoChristain, didnt you know when humans die they loos control of their bladders and urinate, leaving a nastey mess for somone to clean up, this would explain the slight loss of mass seeing how most of our bodys are fluide, although I mite be wrong.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by techristian, posted 04-06-2002 2:17 PM techristian has not yet responded

  
BLACKBOX1
Inactive Member


Message 15 of 71 (108742)
05-17-2004 1:53 AM


I'm sorry to kill the subject but black holes can not be the christen hell. The christen hell will last for eternity and according to Christianity the universe will end at some point as will time. There for there is no possible explanation for hell in a black hole, or any other phenomena in the universe.
Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by Lammy, posted 05-17-2004 2:52 AM BLACKBOX1 has not yet responded
 Message 25 by Guido Arbia, posted 07-22-2004 3:54 PM BLACKBOX1 has not yet responded
 Message 40 by watcher215, posted 06-10-2005 10:47 AM BLACKBOX1 has not yet responded

  
1
2345Next
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2015 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2017