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Author Topic:   Where did the speck/singularity/thing come from?
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1496 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 25 of 61 (100412)
04-16-2004 2:47 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by rineholdr
04-16-2004 2:43 PM


we dont know for sure what was going on right here on earth 10,000 years ago.
You don't know what was going on five minutes ago, by the same argument. How do you know your memories are real?
At som point, you have to admit that substantiating your actions 5 minutes ago and substantiating models about 10,000 years ago or 16 billion years ago is the same problem, philosophically. But somehow I doubt you go around filled with doubt that you were alive 5 minutes ago. The only time you feel the need to highlight the limitations of historicity is when the conclusions threaten your religious dogma, isn't it?

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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1496 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 30 of 61 (100528)
04-17-2004 12:42 AM
Reply to: Message 26 by rineholdr
04-16-2004 2:51 PM


That is the most rediculous statement Ive ever heard.
Around here we address arguments, we don't dismiss them. Ridiculous or not I find it telling you were unable to refute it.
It's ridiculous because it's the logical extension of your position, which is itself ridiculous.

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 Message 32 by usncahill, posted 04-17-2004 2:23 AM crashfrog has replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1496 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 34 of 61 (100543)
04-17-2004 2:26 AM
Reply to: Message 32 by usncahill
04-17-2004 2:23 AM


can you see, smell, touch, taste, or hear anything that isnt real?
Every night, when I go to bed. They're called "dreams". I hear they're pretty common. I guess you don't have them, though?
why would you ever assume that your mind remember some non-real data?
Because I remember a lot of things that never actually happened, like scenes from books or stories I've written, or just things I've imagined, or dreams.
Seriously the way you ask these questions it's like you've never heard of imagination, dreaming, or hallucination.

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 Message 32 by usncahill, posted 04-17-2004 2:23 AM usncahill has replied

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 Message 35 by usncahill, posted 04-17-2004 2:33 AM crashfrog has replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1496 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 36 of 61 (100546)
04-17-2004 2:39 AM
Reply to: Message 35 by usncahill
04-17-2004 2:33 AM


dreams are real.
No, they're not. They're just brain activity that emulates the same nervous functions stimulated by interactivity with the real world.
I don't understand under what definition of "real" you think dreams qualify. Are we talking about the same thing? I'm not so sure.
"Real" are sensory experiences stimulated by the real world, and the chief determinant of that is objectivity - one's ability to corroborate real world experiences with other humans. Dreams, obviously, are not experiences that can usually be corroborated in the same way as experiences in the real world.

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 Message 35 by usncahill, posted 04-17-2004 2:33 AM usncahill has replied

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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1496 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 38 of 61 (100552)
04-17-2004 3:13 AM
Reply to: Message 37 by usncahill
04-17-2004 2:53 AM


but rather if can reliably tell the difference between dreams and awake experiences
Well, then we get back to my point - the only way to reliably substantiate a historical proposition is by corroboration with evidence.
All I was saying to whats-his-name was that it's a double standard to accept corroboration from evidence as confirmation of one historical account (one's own personal memories) but not others (cosmological models of the history of the universe.) Apparently he found this "ridiculous."

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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1496 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 45 of 61 (112832)
06-04-2004 4:44 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by Radrook
06-04-2004 9:10 AM


Scientists don't really know.
Actually they do really know, in so far as it's possible to know anything.
Scientists know that evolution is an accurate model of the history of life on Earth. They know it about as well as any of us know anything, which is to say, they're pretty sure.
I don't understand how you can look at the reams and reams of scientific evidence for evolution and come away saying "it's just speculation."

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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1496 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 56 of 61 (137935)
08-29-2004 8:49 PM
Reply to: Message 53 by Christian7
08-28-2004 7:40 PM


What will you scientist do if one day we event a way to view previous time as it acutaly happened only to find that god created the universe and that alot of things we thaught we knew about history were false.
Change our minds.
See, unlike you dogmatic book worshippers, science-minded folks have the luxury of being able to change our minds about stuff when it turns out we were wrong. Whereas you folks have no recourse but self-deception when it turns out that what you thought was "eternal truth" is actually bullshit.
Tentativity means never having to say "how can I be wrong when I know I'm right?" You should try it.

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