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Author Topic:   Falsifying a young Universe. (re: Supernova 1987A)
starman
Inactive Member


Message 646 of 655 (823452)
11-10-2017 12:10 PM
Reply to: Message 643 by jar
11-09-2017 11:58 PM


Re: A bridge to the stars
? You think you know dates for each chapter of Genesis? What we take your word for it?

To anyone having some actual point of discussion or debate....I will check my blog.

I am suspending EVC from my posts for a few weeks or maybe forever, we'll see.

end transmission

Edited by starman, : No reason given.


My Blog where comments and debate are welcome
https://mountaintwentyone.wixsite.com/home/blog

This message is a reply to:
 Message 643 by jar, posted 11-09-2017 11:58 PM jar has not yet responded

  
Stile
Member
Posts: 3036
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004
Member Rating: 3.0


(1)
Message 647 of 655 (823461)
11-10-2017 12:43 PM
Reply to: Message 645 by starman
11-10-2017 12:07 PM


Re: The Win-Win situation for Science
starman writes:

You admit all you do is believe the forces and laws were the same.

Almost, but you're missing the important part.

What I'm doing is acting as if the forces and laws were the same.
Then, we make progress.

If there are any issues... then the actions will show them. Then, perhaps this idea includes an error. In which case, we adjust the beliefs.
If there are no issues... then perhaps this idea is valid. In which case, we continue to make progress.

Science has been acting on the idea that the stars are far away for hundreds of years.
Much progress has been made.
More progress is ongoing.

No issues have been identified yet.

As long as there are no issues while acting like the stars are far away, science will continue to act as if the stars are far away.
As long as there are no issues while acting like your computer runs software, science will continue to act as if your computer runs software.

How long do you work with something before you simply accept that it's true?
You seem to be able to do this with software running on your computer, but not with stars being far away.
Science has been accepting that stars are far away much longer than science has been accepting that software runs on your computer.

Still no issues.

Perhaps you could be the first to identify an issue, though. Feel free to try.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 645 by starman, posted 11-10-2017 12:07 PM starman has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 648 by Percy, posted 11-10-2017 2:01 PM Stile has responded
 Message 649 by RAZD, posted 11-10-2017 2:05 PM Stile has acknowledged this reply

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 16151
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 648 of 655 (823467)
11-10-2017 2:01 PM
Reply to: Message 647 by Stile
11-10-2017 12:43 PM


Re: The Win-Win situation for Science
If I could quibble a bit with your wording:

Stile writes:

Science has been accepting that stars are far away...

It's just about the word "accepting." We have hard evidence for how far away stars are, with the error ranges growing with increasing distance. There's also something called the cosmic distance ladder. It starts with the distances to close stars established through the parallax of Earth's orbit (e.g., Alpha Centauri) as a basis for establishing the distance to more distant stars, and moves outward from there using a variety of techniques.

I'd have the same quibble with the word "accepting" in the other half of your sentence:

...much longer than science has been accepting that software runs on your computer.

I think we have pretty solid evidence that software runs on computers. Unless he's in some facet of the computer industry, my guess is that Starman accepts that software runs on his computer because that's what everyone else thinks, not because he has any personal experience with the details behind writing/compiling/loading software.

Starman wasn't investing any time understanding people's posts. There was no discussion. He was mostly just tossing off one and two sentence content-free responses.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 647 by Stile, posted 11-10-2017 12:43 PM Stile has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 650 by Stile, posted 11-10-2017 2:14 PM Percy has responded

    
RAZD
Member
Posts: 19215
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 649 of 655 (823468)
11-10-2017 2:05 PM
Reply to: Message 647 by Stile
11-10-2017 12:43 PM


Re: The Win-Win situation for Science
Perhaps you could be the first to identify an issue, though. Feel free to try.

starman has run away from the debates.

So don't hold your breath.

Enjoy


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 647 by Stile, posted 11-10-2017 12:43 PM Stile has acknowledged this reply

  
Stile
Member
Posts: 3036
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004
Member Rating: 3.0


(3)
Message 650 of 655 (823470)
11-10-2017 2:14 PM
Reply to: Message 648 by Percy
11-10-2017 2:01 PM


Re: The Win-Win situation for Science
Percy writes:

Stile writes:

Science has been accepting that stars are far away...

It's just about the word "accepting."

Ha ha

Yes, Science certainly holds stars being far away as a now-mundane evidentially validated fact as much as software running on a computer is a now-mundane evidentially validated fact.
Same with RAZD's nice expansion on the Scientific Method I previously dumbed down to "running on assumptions."

I was trying to use words that would appeal to starman while also at least touching on "the spirit" of scientific concepts.

Starman wasn't investing any time understanding people's posts. There was no discussion. He was mostly just tossing off one and two sentence content-free responses.

Oh, for sure.
I'm not actually trying to appeal to starman.
More like... using starman's posts as a jumping-off point and then attempting to form some sort of description that would appeal to "someone similar to starman, but looking to learn."

I think there's value in replying to starman's posts.
I don't think there's any value in replying to starman


This message is a reply to:
 Message 648 by Percy, posted 11-10-2017 2:01 PM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 651 by Percy, posted 11-10-2017 4:58 PM Stile has not yet responded

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 16151
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.7


(1)
Message 651 of 655 (823483)
11-10-2017 4:58 PM
Reply to: Message 650 by Stile
11-10-2017 2:14 PM


Re: The Win-Win situation for Science
Stile writes:

Oh, for sure.
I'm not actually trying to appeal to starman.
More like... using starman's posts as a jumping-off point and then attempting to form some sort of description that would appeal to "someone similar to starman, but looking to learn."

I think there's value in replying to starman's posts.
I don't think there's any value in replying to starman

Yeah, that sums it up pretty well. That's a good approach with some people. You know you're not going to convince them, or even get them to engage, but it sure is fun lining up all the ducks of an argument for the benefit of others.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 650 by Stile, posted 11-10-2017 2:14 PM Stile has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 652 by Tangle, posted 11-10-2017 6:32 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

    
Tangle
Member
Posts: 5144
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 652 of 655 (823489)
11-10-2017 6:32 PM
Reply to: Message 651 by Percy
11-10-2017 4:58 PM


Re: The Win-Win situation for Science
Percy writes:

but it sure is fun lining up all the ducks of an argument for the benefit of others.

Is it? Really? Maybe the first few times, but over and over again, often with the same immature ignoramouses spraying crap on the forum then leaving for 6 months then returning to do it again?

I wonder. The excuse for feeding the obvious troll is that it's for the benefit others. I seriously doubt that. I think it's really for the benefit of the writer. It's to demonstrate their overall superiority of argument. 'To hone my skills' as admitted by one poster.

Overall it seems a preposterous waste of time, no meeting of minds, no development of argument, no increase of understanding or knowledge, just endless, repetitive posturing on both sides.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 651 by Percy, posted 11-10-2017 4:58 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 653 by jar, posted 11-10-2017 7:53 PM Tangle has responded
 Message 654 by ProtoTypical, posted 11-10-2017 9:28 PM Tangle has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 29603
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.0


Message 653 of 655 (823492)
11-10-2017 7:53 PM
Reply to: Message 652 by Tangle
11-10-2017 6:32 PM


Re: The Win-Win situation for Science
The other option is to allow the utter nonsense that is Young Earth or Creationism or Biblical Christianity to stand as though it had any value or worth.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 652 by Tangle, posted 11-10-2017 6:32 PM Tangle has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 655 by Tangle, posted 11-11-2017 3:38 AM jar has not yet responded

  
ProtoTypical
Member
Posts: 1759
From: Ontario Canada
Joined: 08-04-2010
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 654 of 655 (823494)
11-10-2017 9:28 PM
Reply to: Message 652 by Tangle
11-10-2017 6:32 PM


Re: The Win-Win situation for Science
Overall it seems a preposterous waste of time, no meeting of minds, no development of argument, no increase of understanding or knowledge, just endless, repetitive posturing on both sides.

You are getting cynical in your old age Tangle, there is no end to the battle for truth in advertising and we must persevere.

The mind that is informed by reason above emotion will surely prevail but we need as many of those as we can get and you get them by pointing out the evidence.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 652 by Tangle, posted 11-10-2017 6:32 PM Tangle has not yet responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 5144
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.4


(2)
Message 655 of 655 (823503)
11-11-2017 3:38 AM
Reply to: Message 653 by jar
11-10-2017 7:53 PM


Re: The Win-Win situation for Science
Jar writes:

The other option is to allow the utter nonsense that is Young Earth or Creationism or Biblical Christianity to stand as though it had any value or worth.

That's not the only option. You make the arguments fully once, twice, maybe three times then when it becomes absolutely obvious that you're dealing with a hopeless troll you just ignore him. It'd be a few hundred pages less crap on the forum.

These idiots all disapear eventually, normally by getting banned. Starman will return again in 6 months and we'll do it all again. Pointless.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 653 by jar, posted 11-10-2017 7:53 PM jar has not yet responded

  
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