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Author Topic:   A Miracle by Definition
Phat
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Posts: 18348
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 1 of 38 (372377)
12-26-2006 11:29 PM


We were discussing the subject of miracles in chat one night, and the issue came up as to how one would define a miracle.
Websters writes:
miracle \mir-i-kel\ n 1 : an extraordinary event manifesting divine intervention in human affairs 2 : an unusual event, thing, or accomplishment : wonder, marvel miraculous \me-ra-kye-les\ adj miraculously adv
Going with Websters definition, a miracle need not be by divine intervention. It need only be very unusual. Would winning the Powerball be defined as a miracle or only a fulfillment of astronomical odds?
If an individual had massive cancer in their body and a month or two later the Doctor found no cancer whatsoever, would this qualify as potential divine intervention?
Is everything in life bound to happen eventually according to the laws of statistical improbability and probability?
Faith/Belief or Coffee House, please

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by VerifyMe, posted 12-27-2006 4:19 AM Phat has replied
 Message 5 by Larni, posted 12-27-2006 8:07 AM Phat has replied
 Message 7 by nator, posted 12-27-2006 9:26 AM Phat has not replied
 Message 9 by jar, posted 12-27-2006 11:12 AM Phat has not replied
 Message 26 by sidelined, posted 12-28-2006 5:31 PM Phat has not replied
 Message 32 by meese, posted 12-29-2006 1:57 AM Phat has not replied
 Message 37 by meese, posted 12-30-2006 3:37 AM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18348
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 4 of 38 (372398)
12-27-2006 7:41 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by VerifyMe
12-27-2006 4:19 AM


World Views and formation of the definition
VerifyMe writes:
there is ALWAYS the possibility of something happening or not happening...according to the laws of probability, theres still a possibility everything could happen eventually. Probable or improbable? well i think theres an infinite number of situations and variables to be able to ever guess.
I suppose it depends on your view on time... Is it infinite?
It would seem that to speak of time throws us off topic! A Believer might assert, however, that God is infinite but that time is finite.
Lets examine some other possible definitions of the word, miracle and place them on record, here.
Columbia Encyclopedia writes:
miracle preternatural occurrence that is viewed as the expression of a divine will. Its awe and wonder lie in the fact that the cause is hidden.
The idea of the miracle occurs especially with the evolution of those highly developed religions that distinguish between natural law and divine will. Many supernatural or inexplicable events have been called miracles, but in the strict religious sense a miracle refers only to the direct intervention of divine will in the affairs of men.
The adherents of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam attribute miracles to the omnipotence of God, the Creator, who alone can change the natural events of the world or can delegate that power to a disciple, such as Moses, Jesus, or Muhammad.
From a strict scientific position, Jesus and the others have never been proven to exist...so thats why this topic is in Faith/Belief.
Some people view life arising on Earth as a chance interplay of favorable circumstances.
If the fact that we are here and we as a species have advanced and survived thus far, is this definable as a miracle?
Chance=probability.
Divine intervention implies above and beyond the behavior of natural law.
That encyclopedia used the term, preternatural.
Websters writes:
preternaturaladj 1 : exceeding what is natural 2 : inexplicable by ordinary means preternaturally adv
  • As to God intervening, we can agree that this is a matter of belief.
    If so, however, does that mean that any unusual event can be explained by probable/improbable models?
    In other words, the shirt I'm wearing is green. Would there ever be a point in time that it could suddenly switch to red?

  • This message is a reply to:
     Message 3 by VerifyMe, posted 12-27-2006 4:19 AM VerifyMe has not replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18348
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.0


    Message 6 of 38 (372402)
    12-27-2006 8:13 AM
    Reply to: Message 5 by Larni
    12-27-2006 8:07 AM


    Larni writes:
    I would define a miracle as something done by a god.
    So in other words, are we ruling out the ability of humans to ever initiate miracles? If a gifted surgeon were able to save a life in a way that was virtually unheard of, would that qualify as a miracle? If so, would it have to be an impressionable influence by God (or a god, as you put it) upon the surgeons ordinary skill and nerve?

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 5 by Larni, posted 12-27-2006 8:07 AM Larni has not replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 8 by anastasia, posted 12-27-2006 10:27 AM Phat has not replied

      
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