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Author Topic:   Will The Real God Please Stand Up?
dwise1
Member
Posts: 3192
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 256 of 343 (829313)
03-05-2018 9:41 PM
Reply to: Message 255 by Faith
03-05-2018 7:56 PM


Re: Just So
As you will continue to carry on with your own false beliefs.

You came upon this feeling by reading books about religion. Who wrote those books? Fellow fallible humans. They described to you what their ideas about God were and you adopted their ideas modified by your own ideas and your own misunderstanding of what they had written (complete and perfect transfer of knowledge about religion is virtually impossible, so misunderstanding what one had read is normal). To claim that you did not misunderstand any of it and received all that knowledge perfectly would mean that you are some form of super-human. Really? I've seen your other stuff, so I'm not buying that.

Like every other imperfect and fallible human, you have constructed imperfect ideas of God that fall far short of describing the real thing and it is those imperfect ideas that to you are God.

All of that has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not there exists anything that even begins to approximate what you would call "God."

BTW, you claimed that you have proof that the earth is young, yet you refuse to present it. That tells us that you do not have such proof and you know full well that you do not have that proof.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 255 by Faith, posted 03-05-2018 7:56 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 259 by Faith, posted 03-06-2018 6:05 AM dwise1 has not yet responded

    
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 257 of 343 (829322)
03-06-2018 5:46 AM
Reply to: Message 255 by Faith
03-05-2018 7:56 PM


Re: Just So
When I came to believe in my forties, entirely through reading books about religion, it was with the overwhelming sense of a Reality I couldn't possibly have imagined existing before

And subsequently, your reading has led you to believe that the Jesuit's assassinated Lincoln, that Obama was born in Kenya, that witchcraft really works and that leprechauns are real demons. Why would anybody be convinced by your testimony about your "overwhelming sense of Reality"


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”

We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.

Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith

I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 255 by Faith, posted 03-05-2018 7:56 PM Faith has responded

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Faith
Member
Posts: 30079
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 258 of 343 (829323)
03-06-2018 5:59 AM
Reply to: Message 257 by NoNukes
03-06-2018 5:46 AM


Re: Just So
I believe the evidence supports all that, yes. But that's an entirely different order of things than belief in God.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 257 by NoNukes, posted 03-06-2018 5:46 AM NoNukes has not yet responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 30079
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 259 of 343 (829324)
03-06-2018 6:05 AM
Reply to: Message 256 by dwise1
03-05-2018 9:41 PM


Re: Just So
Every form of knowledge involves fallible humans, so I guess we shouldn't believe anyone about anything, just hole up in a cave. Certainly you should because you believe in the fallible human work of science.

I never used the word "perfectly" but I found believers all agreeing on the basics based on the Bible which we all accept as God's own personal communication to us.

I've presented the proofs of the young earth many times and now I've presented yet another on the Evolution - we have the Fossils thread.

.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 256 by dwise1, posted 03-05-2018 9:41 PM dwise1 has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 260 by jar, posted 03-06-2018 7:00 AM Faith has responded

    
jar
Member
Posts: 30934
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 260 of 343 (829331)
03-06-2018 7:00 AM
Reply to: Message 259 by Faith
03-06-2018 6:05 AM


Re: Just So
Faith writes:

I never used the word "perfectly" but I found believers all agreeing on the basics based on the Bible which we all accept as God's own personal communication to us.

Now Faith, you know that is just another of your Porkies.

What you mean is that believers in your cult all agree on some basics except when they do not agree which is why there are so many different chapters of your cult.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 259 by Faith, posted 03-06-2018 6:05 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 261 by Faith, posted 03-06-2018 7:09 AM jar has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 30079
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 261 of 343 (829332)
03-06-2018 7:09 AM
Reply to: Message 260 by jar
03-06-2018 7:00 AM


Re: Just So
What I mean is that believers in orthodox traditional historical Christianity that goes back to the apostles and is best formulated in the Reformers of the sixteenth century and carried through all the orthodox churches today, agree on the basics of the orthodox traditional historical Christian faith. I also read a lot of heretical writings on my journey to Christianity and learned to reject them as I learned to recognize the truth. For instance, I read Athanasius whose love for truth shines in his work, who trounced the heresies of his day.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 260 by jar, posted 03-06-2018 7:00 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 262 by jar, posted 03-06-2018 7:21 AM Faith has responded
 Message 266 by Phat, posted 03-06-2018 11:40 AM Faith has not yet responded

    
jar
Member
Posts: 30934
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 262 of 343 (829335)
03-06-2018 7:21 AM
Reply to: Message 261 by Faith
03-06-2018 7:09 AM


Re: Just So
So you agree that what you mean is that those who believe what you believe believe what you believe except when they do not believe what you believe.

Yes Faith, we believe you believe that.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 261 by Faith, posted 03-06-2018 7:09 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 263 by Faith, posted 03-06-2018 7:23 AM jar has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 30079
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 263 of 343 (829336)
03-06-2018 7:23 AM
Reply to: Message 262 by jar
03-06-2018 7:21 AM


Re: Just So
Just as I said to dwise it's remarkable how you can accuse me of being caught in a loop of unverifiable suppositions and forget that it must mean that you are too, and with that the possibility of any knowledge at all goes down the drain and I certainly don't have to take anything you say seriously.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 262 by jar, posted 03-06-2018 7:21 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 264 by jar, posted 03-06-2018 7:39 AM Faith has not yet responded

    
jar
Member
Posts: 30934
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 264 of 343 (829338)
03-06-2018 7:39 AM
Reply to: Message 263 by Faith
03-06-2018 7:23 AM


Re: Just So
Faith writes:

Just as I said to dwise it's remarkable how you can accuse me of being caught in a loop of unverifiable suppositions and forget that it must mean that you are too, and with that the possibility of any knowledge at all goes down the drain and I certainly don't have to take anything you say seriously.

Too funny Faith; yet another of your sill porkies. Yes Virginia, there are things that can be verified by comparing them to reality yet the basics of your cult starts off by a statement that you must consider a fantasy as the ultimate base for your beliefs.

Your whole worldview is based on what you claim we are using and the evidence for your fantasy world begins with the Chicago Statement on Biblical Fantasy.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

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 Message 263 by Faith, posted 03-06-2018 7:23 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 15606
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 265 of 343 (829348)
03-06-2018 11:35 AM
Reply to: Message 246 by Phat
03-05-2018 10:42 AM


Re: Committee Still In Session Eleven Years Later
Phat writes:

I'm not convinced that my Deity is hiding from us. More likely, we are incapable of quantifying/defining Her.


Then why is She incapable of communicating Her presence to us? And quantifying/defining Herself to us? Why not at least show Herself in a long white robe and a long white beard, sitting on a long white cloud?

An honest discussion is more of a peer review than a pep rally. My toughest critics here are the people who agree with me. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 246 by Phat, posted 03-05-2018 10:42 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 268 by Phat, posted 03-06-2018 11:49 AM ringo has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 11444
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 266 of 343 (829350)
03-06-2018 11:40 AM
Reply to: Message 261 by Faith
03-06-2018 7:09 AM


Re: Just So
I read a bit about him. He does have good credentials!
quote:
Athanasius is counted as one of the four great Eastern Doctors of the Church in the Roman Catholic Church.[3] In the Eastern Orthodox Church, he is labeled as the "Father of Orthodoxy". Some Protestants label him as "Father of the Canon". Athanasius is venerated as a Christian saint, whose feast day is 2 May in Western Christianity, 15 May in the Coptic Orthodox Church, and 18 January in the other Eastern Orthodox Churches. He is venerated by the Oriental and Eastern Orthodox Churches, the Roman Catholic Church, the Lutherans, and the Anglican Communion.

Acceptance of a basic canon is considered to be one of the expectations of whichever church one chooses to belong. This whole idea of simply framing the bible as a creation of humans means that our faith rests on human wisdom (or the lack thereof).

jar writes:

So you agree that what you mean is that those who believe what you believe (do so) except when they do not believe what you believe.
Yes Faith, we believe you believe that.

She claims to be able to recognize truth within scriptures rather than simply interpreting them with human wisdom.

Keep in mind that the Chicago bunch is quite large and numerous...no mere splinter cult there.

jar writes:

Yes Virginia, there are things that can be verified by comparing them to reality yet the basics of your cult starts off by a statement that you must consider a fantasy as the ultimate base for your beliefs.

What statement are you referring to?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith :)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 261 by Faith, posted 03-06-2018 7:09 AM Faith has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 267 by ringo, posted 03-06-2018 11:46 AM Phat has responded
 Message 273 by jar, posted 03-06-2018 12:09 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 15606
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 267 of 343 (829352)
03-06-2018 11:46 AM
Reply to: Message 266 by Phat
03-06-2018 11:40 AM


Re: Just So
Phat writes:

He does have good credentials!

quote:
Athanasius is counted as one of the four great Eastern Doctors of the Church in the Roman Catholic Church.[3] In the Eastern Orthodox Church, he is labeled as the "Father of Orthodoxy". Some Protestants label him as "Father of the Canon". Athanasius is venerated as a Christian saint, whose feast day is 2 May in Western Christianity, 15 May in the Coptic Orthodox Church, and 18 January in the other Eastern Orthodox Churches. He is venerated by the Oriental and Eastern Orthodox Churches, the Roman Catholic Church, the Lutherans, and the Anglican Communion.

I don't know if Faith would like those credentials. She seems to think "orthodox" means evangelical fundamentalist.

Point of trivia: There's a St. Athanasius Church a few blocks from where I'm sitting - Ukrainian Catholic.


An honest discussion is more of a peer review than a pep rally. My toughest critics here are the people who agree with me. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 266 by Phat, posted 03-06-2018 11:40 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 270 by Phat, posted 03-06-2018 11:59 AM ringo has acknowledged this reply

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 11444
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 268 of 343 (829353)
03-06-2018 11:49 AM
Reply to: Message 265 by ringo
03-06-2018 11:35 AM


Re: Committee Still In Session Eleven Years Later
Then why is She incapable of communicating Her presence to us?
Perhaps "She" has tried numerous times and yet you reject any hint of authenticity due to lack of evidence. Your insistence on physical evidence may ultimately doom you to an eternity of waiting. But enough of this ongoing squabble. We have our courtroom. The candidates are still in the docket. And since today is my day off, I plan on writing my hypothetical Just So chapter after I run a few errands.

As far as the Deity quantifying and/or defining Herself, have you no imagination? After all, some bozo concocted the spaghetti monster and yet here he sits in our docket awaiting confirmation. The least you could do is take the initiative to create a candidate of your own rather than seek to dismiss all contenders as if you owned the universe.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith :)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 265 by ringo, posted 03-06-2018 11:35 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 269 by ringo, posted 03-06-2018 11:58 AM Phat has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 15606
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 269 of 343 (829355)
03-06-2018 11:58 AM
Reply to: Message 268 by Phat
03-06-2018 11:49 AM


Re: Committee Still In Session Eleven Years Later
Phat writes:

Perhaps "She" has tried numerous times and yet you reject any hint of authenticity due to lack of evidence.


How can my rejection trump God?

If I refuse to believe in rabbits, does that stop one from hopping across my lawn? Why is the God you imagine so much weaker than a rabbit?

Phat writes:

Your insistence on physical evidence may ultimately doom you to an eternity of waiting.


No. It's your God's refusal to provide evidence that dooms me to not see it.

Phat writes:

The least you could do is take the initiative to create a candidate of your own rather than seek to dismiss all contenders as if you owned the universe.


That's a silly thing to say. We're trying the suspects that we already have. I don't need to provide my own private suspect.

An honest discussion is more of a peer review than a pep rally. My toughest critics here are the people who agree with me. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 268 by Phat, posted 03-06-2018 11:49 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 271 by Phat, posted 03-06-2018 12:01 PM ringo has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 11444
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 270 of 343 (829356)
03-06-2018 11:59 AM
Reply to: Message 267 by ringo
03-06-2018 11:46 AM


Re: Just So
You must live in Regina. I googled it. Nice inner church....plain on the outside...fancy on the inside

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith :)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 267 by ringo, posted 03-06-2018 11:46 AM ringo has acknowledged this reply

  
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