Christianity Is Broken, but Can Be Fixed

truthloverI am curious here.If Christianity and "the Faith" as you call it are a failure Then how do you know that there is even a lifestyle that is the "way it ought to be"?When did it fail and how do you know that it was different before it failed than after it so- called failed?

truthlover I am trying to come to grips with the idea you have that these people you describe are somehow different from people outside them.How is it that you consider their lifestyle and character to be somehow superior to any others? You say recognizably wonderful but you do not explain what this means.What has being a follower of christ to do with the attainment of happiness or of care for others or of anything different from the average guy on the street?Perhaps I am dense and uncultured but this smacks highly of arrogance and elitism.This message has been edited by sidelined, Thu, 2005-11-17 09:38 AM

truthlover But by what criteria do we determine that? Happier about what? More caring in what way? Closer than their neighbours how? If Christ exists why is this not more obvious than it is?I have met people whom I would not care to socialize with due to drugs they partake of yet I have no doubt that they would unquestioningly lay their life down in defense of my family. They are not christian by any stretch of the imagination but they are true to the code they live by.
I do not think that the moral backbone of a person is related to their beliefs but to their commitments. A person can easily develop the greatest qualities of caring for others without being a follower of anything so I do not see that people change because of belief but because of learning the value of such actions in dealing with their day to day

jar [qs]TL is saying that Christianity has failed if

as a body, they do not inspire you.

you would not want your kids to behave as the Christian children do.

if you would not want to be more like them.

if as a teacher, you did not wish all your kids paid as much attention or tried as hard as the Christian kids.

if you did not wish they were your neighbors.

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Are you saying that Christians fail to do these things or that they somehow believe society expects these criteria of them?

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First off groups never inspire me though individuals might.

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Second my kids behave exactly as christian kids do as muslim kids do as jewish kids do since they are kids so I fail to see where that one is going.{But I am thick in the head so be patient}

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Third I have never wanted to be like someone else because the fact is unless you are married to someone{and even then sometimes} you do not know who they are. You only know the face they present to you.

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Next I am puzzled here because I do not know that any so called group of kids pays as much attention or tries as hard as any other. Perhaps you could clarify this for me.

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And last of all neighbours are an overrated bunch of people anyway. They are often obnoxious or gossip incessently and once you get to know them will actually try to be friendly to you. I am too much of a grump to be so harrassed. I would be more content with a wilderness around me and friends who dropped in from time to time to share stories of themselves and not vacuous small talk about other people and their lifestyles.

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TL would like to see you so impressed by someone that you need to find out how they did it.

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LOL
I am never impressed by the group but by the individual. If you wish to impress then you have already made an error in judgement as I see it. Impressions are not a goal but a result. Bruce Lee made mention of this in a book of his called Tao of Jeet Kune Do.
When you involve the mind in the impression you are trying to make rather than on the action you are trying to accomplish then you have lost both.

Bruce Lee writes:

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It is indeed difficult to see the situation simply,our minds are vey complex,and it is easy to teach one to be skillful, but it is difficult to teach them their own attitude

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This message has been edited by sidelined, Fri, 2005-11-18 08:01 AM

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But I realize now that these people were not in science; they didn’t understand it. They didn’t understand technology; they didn’t understand their time.

jar I do not think that is the right way at all.The reason is that if all are inspiring it becomes the norm and inspiration fades away.
It is precisely because certain individuals erupt above the norm { Bruce Lee,,John Bachar,John Lennon,Richard Feynman,Wilfred Owen} that we are inspired by their excellence in the fields of endeavour they are in.More than anything is the fact that they are not concerned with the appearances but with substance.It is a measure of the greatness of a person that they perform flawless maneuvers with an economy that belies the immense effort that is moving behind the scenes.Insights seem to apppear without effort,movement appears to be magical and understanding seems to cascade out of them in utter simplicity and clarity.So therefore,it is not the lack of inspiration but the human weakness of need for constant affirmation of a position subject to much division of purpose and filtered through the moral enviroment of different individuals with different outlooks on just what is important in life.I am exhausted from care in phrasing to impress you on how hard I am trying to avoid an Hikotu.

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But I realize now that these people were not in science; they didn’t understand it. They didn’t understand technology; they didn’t understand their time.