Author
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Topic: What is needed for creationists to connect evidence to valid conclusions
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Modulous
Member Posts: 7801 From: Manchester, UK Joined: 05-01-2005
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Re: Avoiding Our Point
everytime a Biblical claim is evidenced true, especially major ones, the same supports the credibility of the claim that Adam was created from the clay-like ground in the image of God. Yes, and every time a Koranic claim is evidenced true, especially major ones, the same supports the credibility of the claim that Adam was created from clay: The more the Koran is shown to be true and factual corresponding to reality the more the claims about Jesus' divinity is, in direct ratio, shown to be false.
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Modulous
Member Posts: 7801 From: Manchester, UK Joined: 05-01-2005
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Re: Avoiding Our Point
I am assuming that the Koran does not say that Allah created Adam. 32:
quote: He Who has made everything which He has created most good: He began the creation of man with (nothing more than) clay,
7:
quote: It is We Who created you and gave you shape; then We bade the angels prostrate to Adam, and they prostrate; not so Iblis; He refused to be of those who prostrate. (Allah) said: "What prevented thee from prostrating when I commanded thee?" He said: "I am better than he: Thou didst create me from fire, and him from clay."
3:
quote: Surely the likeness of Isa is with Allah as the likeness of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him, Be, and he was.
The garden of Eden, Eve, the forbidden fruit, the flood. It's all in there: it is the same creation story.
quote: Surely your Lord is Allah, Who created the heavens and the earth in six periods, and He is firm in power, regulating the affair, there is no intercessor except aher His permission; this is Allah, your Lord, therefore serve Him; will you not then mind?
Does this mean that the existence of Jinn is strongly confirmed?
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Modulous
Member Posts: 7801 From: Manchester, UK Joined: 05-01-2005
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Re: Avoiding Our Point
Who or what is "Jinn"? Google is a wonderful and easy to use resource. Wiki gives a good answer:
quote: The Djinn are said to be creatures with free will, made from 'smokeless fire' by God (the literal translation being “subtle fire”, i.e., a fire which does not give itself away through smoke), much in the same way humans were made of earth. According to the Recitation, Djinn have free choice, and Iblis used this freedom in front of God by refusing to bow to Adam when God told Iblis to do so. By refusing to obey God’s order he was thrown out of the Paradise and called “Shaitan” (See Shaitan and Satan). In the Qur'an, Djinn are frequently mentioned and Sura 72 of the Qur'an named Al-Jinn is entirely about them. Another Sura (Al-Naas) mentions the Djinn in the last verse. In fact, it is mentioned in the Qur'an that Muhammad was sent as a prophet to both “humanity and the Djinn”
They have also been called Genies - a word I'm sure you are familiar with courtesy of 1001 Arabian nights; the tale of Alladin and a genie that is bound to a lamp.
Also, your previous point, like I said, I agree with. This is why Comparative Religion proves that the Koran is in error when it disagrees with the Bible. I'm not sure how comparative religion does this. I have no idea how anyone could do this. You have said that a claim made in a source that is confirmed as true, in turn verifies other claims made by the same source. How do you resolve disputes between two such sources without special pleading?
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Modulous
Member Posts: 7801 From: Manchester, UK Joined: 05-01-2005
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Re: Avoiding Our Point
Off topic. I think it would be on topic to explore the area of connecting evidence to invalid conclusions, just so we can get an idea of the art of reaching valid ones. We can both agree that the Koran derives invalid conclusions, so let's stick with that as a basic example. The Koran says Jesus was a prophet but that he was not God. We both agree that this is not true. However, the Koran says many things that can be confirmed as true. How do you come to the conclusion that the Koran is wrong on this point, even though some parts of it have been confirmed as accurate?
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Modulous
Member Posts: 7801 From: Manchester, UK Joined: 05-01-2005
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Now, who are we going to believe: one person who claims to be a Prophet, or the Apostles and disciples of Jesus and Jesus Himself? That's almost the question. Which claimed words of which claimed prophet is evidence that can be connected to valid conclusions/claims?
The Koran's or Mohammed's contention about Jesus is false. Jesus was not a Prophet. He was either a nut or a liar or who He claimed to be: Divine Son of God of whom all authority in heaven and earth was given unto Him. Unless Jesus was a prophet and he never claimed those things, some of his followers did and it is they (or their followers) who are lying. So how are we able to demonstrate that the evidence of the Koran does not always lead to valid conclusions whereas the evidence of the Bible does? What is it that prevents the contradictory claims of the Koran from being valid/true despite the fact that many other Koranic claims are proven true, and why does this not apply to the Bible?
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Modulous
Member Posts: 7801 From: Manchester, UK Joined: 05-01-2005
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I seem to recall that Ray set a date back in January 2006. He advised us it would be here by April...2006. Apparently 18 months worth of unforeseen work was needed to be done so we can be assured that it will be of the highest quality. abe: and what Percy said above. Edited by Modulous, : No reason given.
This message is a reply to: | | Message 135 by molbiogirl, posted 01-08-2008 2:24 AM | | molbiogirl has not replied |
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