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Author Topic:   My mind's in a knot... (Re: Who/what created God?)
obvious Child
Member (Idle past 4146 days)
Posts: 661
Joined: 08-17-2006


Message 28 of 156 (465794)
05-10-2008 3:12 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by mike the wiz
05-08-2008 9:52 AM


Re: Uncaused First Causes
quote:
Ultimately, asking who/what created God would already make God NOT God, as it becomes a contradiction. This is where atheists suffer from a lack of understanding of Jehovah/Yahweh, perhaps, in that they will not spend time considering a sovereign God as a genuine answer to the problem.
Your argument is fundamentally insane. Your question in no way creates a contradiction. In polytheistic religions Gods were created all of the time. Merely asking how one new God was created didn't make that God a contradiction. The thing about this question is that it completely shows how weak the "everything must have an origin, therefore God" argument really is. If God does not need an origin, then nothing else does. Users of that asinine argument either have to logically abandon it or use fallacies such as special pleading. There is no logical or rational way of using the origin argument for God's existence.
quote:
From a neutral standpoint, God makes a lot of sense, which begs the question; then why question God? Which allows us to conclude = because the person dislikes God being an answer to the problem. So ultimately it comes down to the person's disbelief being a problem, rather than the creation, which declares the glory of God.
Again, insane. God doesn't make a lot of sense. Omnipotence makes God not only illogical but completely nonsensical. God could make the flavor Purple triangle despite purple being a color and triangle being a shape. Nonsensical is by definition the opposite of sensical. And merely because things make sense does not mean we don't question them. Under your logic, the entire branch of organizational efficiency should be tossed out since a lot of things 'make sense' even if they aren't working as efficiently as they could. People question God for the same reason they question everything else.
And you can't hate or dislike God if you don't believe in it. I don't hate or dislike Goblins because they aren't real.
Your argument is truly nuts.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by mike the wiz, posted 05-08-2008 9:52 AM mike the wiz has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 29 by Jenifer, posted 05-10-2008 6:34 PM obvious Child has replied

  
obvious Child
Member (Idle past 4146 days)
Posts: 661
Joined: 08-17-2006


Message 31 of 156 (466096)
05-13-2008 4:01 AM
Reply to: Message 29 by Jenifer
05-10-2008 6:34 PM


Re: Uncaused First Causes
Aside from that Straggler has disproved your point you just refuted the very argument you're trying to make.
God exists because all things need an origin, yet God doesn't need an origin. That's special pleading. You just proved what I argued!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by Jenifer, posted 05-10-2008 6:34 PM Jenifer has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 33 by mike the wiz, posted 05-13-2008 7:05 AM obvious Child has replied
 Message 47 by Agobot, posted 01-06-2009 7:52 AM obvious Child has not replied

  
obvious Child
Member (Idle past 4146 days)
Posts: 661
Joined: 08-17-2006


Message 34 of 156 (466208)
05-13-2008 3:19 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by mike the wiz
05-13-2008 7:05 AM


Re: Uncaused First Causes
quote:
How is that an absolutely solid axiom anyway?
The observable needs an origin. The natural world, and it's components, by observation, it can be determined that they require a cause
Alright,
quote:
It takes a fallacious LEAP to then apply this to the transcendent supernatural.
No, you have changed the argument. Instead of all things, you've modified it to observable. That's raising the bar.
quote:
The bible, which existed before these arguments, tells us that the invisible created the visible, the eternal the none-eternal.
And the holy book of the invisible pink unicorn says the bible is a load of lies. Good job on failing to understand what citing such books generally results in poor arguments.
quote:
Checkmate.
Not at all. You used the fallacy of raising the bar.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by mike the wiz, posted 05-13-2008 7:05 AM mike the wiz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 35 by ICANT, posted 05-13-2008 3:54 PM obvious Child has not replied
 Message 40 by mike the wiz, posted 05-15-2008 5:43 AM obvious Child has not replied

  
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