My mind's in a knot... (Re: Who/what created God?)

Grizz, I think you've put forth a fairly convincing argument from a naturalistic perspective. I don't think theists would buy it at all, though. Here's what I'm referring to: The typical theist doesn't see emotions, intelligence, etc. as parts of the physical world, but as manifestations of the immaterial spirit within us. Thus, the attributing of these qualities to God makes perfect sense within the theistic framework.The problem then becomes explaining how spiritual emotions can be altered by head trauma or chemical substances. This could be easily rationalized away by saying that our emotions have to work through a physical medium. However, God's emotions are pure and perfect, and are not restricted or corrupted by a physical medium.However, I'm a Mormon: we believe God also has a physical body. I personally believe emotions are just chemical reactions that God uses to teach us lessons.Intelligence is a bit of a different story. While Mormon beliefs don't really bear on this debate (yet, I seem to be sharing them a lot recently, and today in particular), this is applicable here. We aren't strictly monotheistic: God was created by another God. He was once a man, like us, and rose to the station of deity in the same way that He is now instructing us to follow (yes, that means we're destined to be gods, just like Him). Of course, we still have the same problem of circularity: God was created by another God, who was created by another God, who was created by another God, who was created by another God, etc., and this has been going on for eternity.Our explanation is that we're limited in our ability to understand "eternity." I personally wish we had a better explanation. That's one of the main reasons why I hope so strongly that there is a Heaven: it's the only chance I seem to have of ultimately getting the answers to all these questions.

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I'm BluejayDarwin loves you.

Hi, Buzz. Can you give a reference for this?

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I'm Bluejay.Darwin loves you.

Hi, Buzz. I don't think I follow you. I'm not sure these scriptures specify that "heaven" must be inside this universe.I incidentally agree with you that God is part of this universe---Mormon scriptures refer to the "throne of God" as a place in the cosmos (by inference from a reference to its proximity to a specific star), as seen below:

quote:

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2. And I saw the stars, that they were very great, and that one of them was nearest unto the throne of God; and there were many great ones which were near unto it;
3. And the Lord said unto me: These are the governing ones; and the name of the great one is Kolob, because it is near unto me, for I am the Lord thy God: I have set this one to govern all those which belong to the same order as that upon which thou standest.

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-Abraham 3: 2-3

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I've never found a biblical source that affirms this directly, though.----- So, who or what did create the universe?
Did the universe come into being on its own?
Or, has it always existed without being created?Edited by Mantis, : I attributed to post #56 what should have been attributed to post #58.

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I'm Bluejay.Darwin loves you.

Hi, Buzsaw.This is going to be a long conversation if we continue at this reply rate! I think I understand what you're saying. But, I'd like to dig a bit deeper before I proceed too far.Exclude God from the definition of "universe," just for the sake of this paragraph. Is the universe still eternal, even if the term "universe" does not include God? In other words, was there ever a point when only God existed, and nothing else?

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I'm Bluejay.Darwin loves you.