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Author Topic:   NEPHILIM mYsteries
Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 5512
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006


Message 61 of 134 (309982)
05-07-2006 1:21 PM
Reply to: Message 60 by arachnophilia
05-07-2006 1:53 AM


Re: rephaim
quote:
i want to point out a few passages in the bible that do, unquestionably, describe giants.

We should also point out the Book of Giants contained in the Dead Sea Scrolls. The DSS may or may not be Divine, but I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that its historical significance, as they pertain to extremely large men, might provide some insight. The story follows the format provided for us from Genesis but adds to it some specifics, most notably, names of some of the Nephilim.

I don't know how you guys feel about it. I'm undecided. The DSS is currently some of my bathroom reading material. Whatever it is, I recognize it as a piece of antiquity and appreciate its historicity.

http://www.ziarah.net/book-of-giants.html

This message has been edited by nemesis_juggernaut, 05-07-2006 01:22 PM


This message is a reply to:
 Message 60 by arachnophilia, posted 05-07-2006 1:53 AM arachnophilia has responded

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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 88 days)
Posts: 9068
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 62 of 134 (310152)
05-07-2006 10:53 PM
Reply to: Message 61 by Hyroglyphx
05-07-2006 1:21 PM


Re: rephaim
i'm not honestly sure how i feel about the dss. there some fun stuff in them, but it also includes many later (re)interpretations. they do not neccessarily represent the views of the authors of the old testament -- but they DO give us a hint at how people read it.


אָרַח

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LudoRephaim
Member (Idle past 2438 days)
Posts: 651
From: Jareth's labyrinth
Joined: 03-12-2006


Message 63 of 134 (310244)
05-08-2006 9:08 AM
Reply to: Message 61 by Hyroglyphx
05-07-2006 1:21 PM


Re: rephaim
Hey there nemesis_juggernaut :)

I've read some of the "Book of the Giants" that you mentioned. It is very fragmented and hard to fully understand. But it's an amazing read none the less. I also visited the sources you posted a while back. Interesting read. I dont know for absolutely sure that it is crackpot, but hey it's interesting.

THere are several translations of the Dead sea scrolls at my local Borders bookstore, though i've never gotten around to buying them. I'll get one sooner or later.


"The Nephilim where in the Earth in those days..." Genesis 6:4
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LudoRephaim
Member (Idle past 2438 days)
Posts: 651
From: Jareth's labyrinth
Joined: 03-12-2006


Message 64 of 134 (310247)
05-08-2006 9:15 AM
Reply to: Message 54 by macaroniandcheese
05-06-2006 1:39 PM


modern height records
brennakimi writes:

There's no modern record of anyone over what 8 feet?

Over 9 feet. Robert Wadlow, the tallest man on verifiable record (some ancient records record taller people, but medical evidence for them are now long gone)was 8 feet 11 inches tall. He would have surpassed 9 feet or so if he had lived longer. He weighed nearly 500 pounds. People with growth disorders like him are called "Pathological Giants" or people who developed great height by way of a medical problem. Robert Wadlow was a true giant, but he wasn't of a race of Giants or Rephaim. He was just abnormally gigantic due to a syndrome of sorts (some form of gigantism)

A Jew named Eleazar was recorded to have ben "7 cubits tall" by Josephus, who lived in the first century AD. This jewish giant was a contemporary of Jesus and Pilate, and the height, taken in the Old Testament common cubit, would make him over 10 feet tall. If taken with the cubit used in Josephus' time (21.6 inches long) he would have been over 12 feet tall. Talk about an NBA prospect!!!


"The Nephilim where in the Earth in those days..." Genesis 6:4
This message is a reply to:
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LudoRephaim
Member (Idle past 2438 days)
Posts: 651
From: Jareth's labyrinth
Joined: 03-12-2006


Message 65 of 134 (310250)
05-08-2006 9:22 AM
Reply to: Message 60 by arachnophilia
05-07-2006 1:53 AM


rephaim???
Arachnophilia writes:

The word is related to health, and healing, and doctors

That is freaky. The word not only means giants, mighty, ghosts, dwellers of the underworld, but also is something to due with healing. Is this relation in classical or modern hebrew?

Yeah ol' King Og was a big 'un. Probably taller than Goliath. In Ed Strauss' children's book "Big bad Bible Giants" he makes the statement that King Og could have been 11 feet tall and 1200 pounds (pages 56 and 66 of his book)! That would be a stretch if it wasn't for the supernatural tinge of then word "rephaim" which Og is said to belong (some translations render Deut 3:11 as "Only Og was left of the Rephaim or Rephaites .

He would no doubt be recruited by Vince Mcmahon and the WWE if he was around today LOL.

This message has been edited by LudoRephaim, 05-08-2006 09:23 AM


"The Nephilim where in the Earth in those days..." Genesis 6:4
This message is a reply to:
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LudoRephaim
Member (Idle past 2438 days)
Posts: 651
From: Jareth's labyrinth
Joined: 03-12-2006


Message 66 of 134 (310277)
05-08-2006 11:42 AM
Reply to: Message 54 by macaroniandcheese
05-06-2006 1:39 PM


BTW: Brennakimi, there are not only giants in the vertical sense, but also horizontally. There have ben many people who are quite obese, some weighing over 1000 pounds.

ONe woman named Carol Yeager (or yager) was estimated to have weghed 1600 lbs. She was featured on the Jerry Springer show and a few weeks later sadly passed away. But what is interesting is that if she lived in the ancient world (such as ancient Palestine) she probably would have been seen as on par as how we see a beautiful supermodel. Obesity wasn't seen as bad like we see it today, but as desireable (it meant you where rich enough to afford enough food to become that obese) she might have been seen as a sex symbol back then. Even in Japan fat sumo wrestlers are seen as attractive.

Could you imagine weighing 1600 lbs yet being the object of every man's desire?

I'll post a source about her if you want.

This message has been edited by LudoRephaim, 05-08-2006 11:44 AM


"The Nephilim where in the Earth in those days..." Genesis 6:4
This message is a reply to:
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LudoRephaim
Member (Idle past 2438 days)
Posts: 651
From: Jareth's labyrinth
Joined: 03-12-2006


Message 67 of 134 (310280)
05-08-2006 11:54 AM
Reply to: Message 54 by macaroniandcheese
05-06-2006 1:39 PM


Hobbits!
There is also a species of fossil human that was the opposite of a Giant. nicknamed "Hobbits" homo floresiensis was a race of 3 feet 3 inch tall hominids that where possibly descendants of Java man (homo erectus) . They had an upright body structure like homo erectus, but was half the height and weighed possibly 55 lbs. I dont know how stout they where, though it would be interesting to know. See"The complete guide to Prehistoric life" by Tim Haines and Paul Chambers for details.


"The Nephilim where in the Earth in those days..." Genesis 6:4
This message is a reply to:
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macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1282 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 68 of 134 (310316)
05-08-2006 1:46 PM
Reply to: Message 66 by LudoRephaim
05-08-2006 11:42 AM


nah. that's okay. i had the disfortune of watching that episode.

i honestly doubt anyone became that obese in the ancient world. that kind of weight comes from unhealthy food additives and overpreocessed, nutritionless crap. even very wealthy people had to excercise some in the ancient world and no one had processed food.


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macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1282 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 69 of 134 (310320)
05-08-2006 1:47 PM
Reply to: Message 64 by LudoRephaim
05-08-2006 9:15 AM


Re: modern height records
do certain growth disorders make people continue to grow? sources please.
This message is a reply to:
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LudoRephaim
Member (Idle past 2438 days)
Posts: 651
From: Jareth's labyrinth
Joined: 03-12-2006


Message 70 of 134 (310371)
05-08-2006 5:56 PM
Reply to: Message 69 by macaroniandcheese
05-08-2006 1:47 PM


da sources
sorry about that.

I couldn't find anything on wikipedia's article about continual growth in adulthood associated with gigantism, but i did find it on it's article on Robert Wadlow:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Wadlow

here is it's article on Gigantism it'self:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gigantism

and this source relates the possibility that the Biblical Goliath had some kind of growth disorder (acromegaly, which the wrestler "Andre the Giant" had):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goliath


"The Nephilim where in the Earth in those days..." Genesis 6:4
This message is a reply to:
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LudoRephaim
Member (Idle past 2438 days)
Posts: 651
From: Jareth's labyrinth
Joined: 03-12-2006


Message 71 of 134 (310372)
05-08-2006 6:04 PM
Reply to: Message 69 by macaroniandcheese
05-08-2006 1:47 PM


Acromegaly
Here's a source for another kind of growth disorder: Acromegaly

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acromegaly


"The Nephilim where in the Earth in those days..." Genesis 6:4
This message is a reply to:
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LudoRephaim
Member (Idle past 2438 days)
Posts: 651
From: Jareth's labyrinth
Joined: 03-12-2006


Message 72 of 134 (310375)
05-08-2006 6:09 PM
Reply to: Message 69 by macaroniandcheese
05-08-2006 1:47 PM


super giant!!!!
Of course, you dont have to have a growth disorder to become a giant. Angus Macaskill was a giant who was 7 feet 9 inches tall and weighed over 400 pounds, yet he had no disorder that made him so huge. He was a "Non-Pathological Giant". And he was inhumanly strong, able to lift nearly 3000 lbs anchors to his chest and carry 300 lbs barrels under each arm and walk with them like they where nothing! The squared cube law didn't seem to work on him (i've never met a 200 lbs person who could lift around 7 times his own weight to his chest!)

heres a source (which has links to other sources)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angus_MacAskill


"The Nephilim where in the Earth in those days..." Genesis 6:4
This message is a reply to:
 Message 69 by macaroniandcheese, posted 05-08-2006 1:47 PM macaroniandcheese has responded

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macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1282 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 73 of 134 (310398)
05-08-2006 7:06 PM
Reply to: Message 72 by LudoRephaim
05-08-2006 6:09 PM


Re: super giant!!!!
dude. seriously. combine these into one post. repetitive posting just gets annoying.
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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 88 days)
Posts: 9068
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 74 of 134 (310419)
05-08-2006 10:11 PM
Reply to: Message 65 by LudoRephaim
05-08-2006 9:22 AM


Re: rephaim???
That is freaky. The word not only means giants, mighty, ghosts, dwellers of the underworld, but also is something to due with healing. Is this relation in classical or modern hebrew?

biblical.

http://www.blueletterbible.org/tmp_dir/words/7/1147140543-1014.html

Yeah ol' King Og was a big 'un. Probably taller than Goliath.

according to the bible, he was. (see above)

That would be a stretch if it wasn't for the supernatural tinge of then word "rephaim" which Og is said to belong (some translations render Deut 3:11 as "Only Og was left of the Rephaim or Rephaites .

i still think that "rephaim" might be better rendered as a name of a people. i'm not sure though.


אָרַח

This message is a reply to:
 Message 65 by LudoRephaim, posted 05-08-2006 9:22 AM LudoRephaim has responded

Replies to this message:
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Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 5512
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006


Message 75 of 134 (310468)
05-09-2006 9:35 AM
Reply to: Message 67 by LudoRephaim
05-08-2006 11:54 AM


Re: Hobbits!
quote:
There is also a species of fossil human that was the opposite of a Giant. nicknamed "Hobbits" homo floresiensis was a race of 3 feet 3 inch tall hominids that where possibly descendants of Java man (homo erectus)

Homo floresiensis was most likely, completley human, and once named "Ebu Gogo's."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ebu_Gogo

I've got some more giants for you too:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guanches


This message is a reply to:
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