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Author Topic:   Why are there venomous snakes?
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1496 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 42 of 75 (128259)
07-28-2004 1:15 AM
Reply to: Message 41 by Buzsaw
07-28-2004 1:10 AM


Oh, so since it may or may not exist, they really don't know and since they don't know, they play it safe and ultimately the student is taught that it doesn't exist?? Is that how it works?
No, buz. I imagine that students in physics classes who inquire about the supernatural are directed to the theology or psychology departments, much as they would be directed to the CS department if they inquired about microprocessors, or the biology department if they inquired about the metabolic molecule ATP.
In other words, things irrelevant to science are not handled by the science department. There are no science textbooks that say that the supernatural does not exist. There are no evolution textbooks that say God does not exist.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by Buzsaw, posted 07-28-2004 1:10 AM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by Buzsaw, posted 07-28-2004 1:33 AM crashfrog has replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1496 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 47 of 75 (128273)
07-28-2004 2:11 AM
Reply to: Message 44 by Buzsaw
07-28-2004 1:33 AM


This forum is not the collegiate science department. It is a public forum in which both views are discussed.
Last I checked, it was an evolution forum where the biological, geological, paleontological, and cosmological sciences were discussed, Maybe you missed the sign?
Isn't science suppose to be about things which may exist in the universe and about the existing evidence of those things?
No. Science is about constructing testable models that lead to predictions about phenomena in the universe.
Since the existence or non-existence of the supernatural is irrelevant to that process, by definition, it's not relevant to science. Therefore we exclude it from the science classroom.
The theology department is down the hall, Buz. What we do here is construct and test models. If you just want to make stuff up, head down a few doors.

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 Message 44 by Buzsaw, posted 07-28-2004 1:33 AM Buzsaw has not replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1496 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 61 of 75 (128524)
07-29-2004 1:56 AM
Reply to: Message 60 by Buzsaw
07-29-2004 1:39 AM


Why does everything existing in the universe need be modeled?
It doesn't, but you have to understand that that's the purpose and function of science - modelling that which is modelable.
So, that which is unmodelable is outside the purview of science. That's why science directs those questions to the tehology department.
That's not science saying "it doesn't exist", that's science saying "answering that question isn't something we can do with the tools we have."
Imo, if it exists it should be acknowledged by science that things unexplained may have occured supernatually.
But why on Earth would we come to that conclusion when, every time before when we encountered something with no explanation, it was simply that we hadn't come up with an explanation yet?
How on Earth would you determine the difference between something that we haven't been able to model yet, and something that we'll never be able to model?
The reason that science probably won't say that the unexplainable is the supernatural is because it's never been the case that the unexplainable has turned out to be the supernatural. It's always turned out to be something we just weren't able to explain yet.
Do you understand the question, yet? How are we supposed to know the difference between the unexplainable-under-any-circumstances supernatural stuff and the unexplained-because-we-just-haven't-found-the-right-explanation stuff? Are we just supposed to assume everything we can't explain is something we'll never explain, even though that has yet to ever be the case?
All things must be explained with the assumption that it is impossible for any existing supernatural being to do anything supernatural.
No. What we're saying is that the assumption "we'll never be able to explain this" should never be made. Why would we make that assumption? How would you know if something is explainable until you try to explain it?
It also explains why only the legged serpents/reptiles disappeared and the belly crawlers and short legged ones survived.
Just so you know, dinosaurs aren't reptiles.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 60 by Buzsaw, posted 07-29-2004 1:39 AM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 63 by Buzsaw, posted 07-30-2004 1:52 AM crashfrog has replied
 Message 66 by Buzsaw, posted 07-30-2004 2:30 AM crashfrog has replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1496 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 67 of 75 (129031)
07-30-2004 6:48 PM
Reply to: Message 63 by Buzsaw
07-30-2004 1:52 AM


You don't need always to model, as I stated.
You do if you're going science. That, after all, is the purpose of science, the formation of predictive models.
You go by the evidence and research that.
Which would be the first step of creating models. I honestly don't understand what you're getting at.
That's why science needs to take a look at the evidence of the supernatural and add another dimension to their model of the universe.......the supernatual dimension.
But if the supernatural, by definition, is that which cannot be modeled, then this just isn't possible.

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 Message 63 by Buzsaw, posted 07-30-2004 1:52 AM Buzsaw has not replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1496 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 68 of 75 (129032)
07-30-2004 6:50 PM
Reply to: Message 66 by Buzsaw
07-30-2004 2:30 AM


Why do you deny this?
Because they're not reptiles, Buz.
Reptiles are cold-blooded. Dinosaurs are not. Reptiles have reptile-like pelvises. Dinosaurs do not. Reptiles amble around on splayed, bent legs. Dinosaurs have an upright stance.
Just like birds aren't reptiles, dinosaurs aren't reptiles. They're dinosaurs.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 66 by Buzsaw, posted 07-30-2004 2:30 AM Buzsaw has not replied

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 Message 69 by NosyNed, posted 07-30-2004 7:03 PM crashfrog has replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1496 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 70 of 75 (129037)
07-30-2004 7:08 PM
Reply to: Message 69 by NosyNed
07-30-2004 7:03 PM


I think that dinosaurs might well be reptiles.
Insofar as birds and mammals are reptiles, yes.
But I do know that aa distinction is regularly drawn between dinosaurs and other prehistoric reptiles alive at the same time.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 69 by NosyNed, posted 07-30-2004 7:03 PM NosyNed has replied

Replies to this message:
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