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Author Topic:   A Theological Defense of "Gap Theory"
ConsequentAtheist
Member (Idle past 6268 days)
Posts: 392
Joined: 05-28-2003


Message 36 of 144 (268721)
12-13-2005 9:23 AM
Reply to: Message 34 by jaywill
12-13-2005 8:56 AM


Re: some translation issues
Please continue your submissions though.
Indeed. And, in the meantime, please respond to the above request for confirmation of Dillman's credentials.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by jaywill, posted 12-13-2005 8:56 AM jaywill has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 37 by jaywill, posted 12-13-2005 10:44 AM ConsequentAtheist has replied

  
ConsequentAtheist
Member (Idle past 6268 days)
Posts: 392
Joined: 05-28-2003


Message 38 of 144 (268788)
12-13-2005 12:17 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by jaywill
12-13-2005 10:44 AM


Re: Did August Dillman have any credentials?
Forgive me, jaywill, but I continue to struggle with your claim that ...
August Dillman was a prominant Hebrew language scholar
... in suport of which you now offer the following:
quote:
And if there were any question, it would be sufficient for most people who know the meaning of the word ”scholar’ to note that S.R. Driver unhesitatingly recognized Pusey as an authority. It is doubtfulif Driver has an equal as a Hebraist - certainly not, I venture to say, in the matter of the use of the Hebrew verb. And Pusey himslf notes that Dilitzsch, who in earlier editions had argued against his own view, ”subsequently embraced it’. It is also worth noting that another scholar of equal stature with Delitzsch, namely, August Dillman, likewise wrote against the view and subsequently changed his mind - on linquistic grounds alone, In his Commentary on Genesis published in 1897, Dillman renders Gen. 1:2, ”But then was the earth waste, etc.’, and he expresses the view that ”became’ would be incorrect. However, before the two volume work was actually published he had changed his mind, for on page x under Corrigenda, he notes that the above rendering should be altered to read: ”But then the earth became . ’ It was not a matter of indifference to Dillman, therefore, but of sufficient importance to justify two Corrigendum notices. S.R. Driver resisted this translation to the end - even, as we shall see, at the price if a certain inconsistency. But Driver did admit in his The Book of Genesis that it was ”exegetically admissible.’
So, what does this tell us? Apparently ...
  1. Driver [not Dillman] was a recognized Hebraist who
  2. unhesitatingly recognized Pusey as an authority - although of what we are not told.
  3. Pusey notes that Dilitzsch [not Dillman], who had argued against his view, ”subsequently embraced it’.
  4. another scholar of equal stature with Delitzsch, namely, August Dillman, likewise wrote against the view and subsequently changed his mind - on linquistic grounds alone.
I see nothing here to suggest that Dillman was a Hebraist of note. Perhaps sesnsing that you had not yet validated your claim, you then offered ...
S.R. Driver refers to Dillman as an authority in ancient Hebrew grammer in this excerpt from one of his publications sited by Custance:
quote:
All that a careful scholar like Mr. Wright (Lectures on the Comparative Grammer of the Semitic Languages, 1890) can bring himself to admit with refenrece to the pluperfect sense of any other construction than that of word order inversion, is that while ”no clear instances can be cited in which it is distinctly so used’, there are cases in which ”something like and approximation to the signification can be detected’. And it is rejected unreservedly by Bottcher, Quarry, Pusey, and Dillman.
But here too we see nothing to substantiate your claim. I am more than willing to grant Dillmann's credentials when it comes to the South Semitic Ethiopic grammar, but that would hardly make him an expert in Biblical Hebrew. One might just as reasonably rely on an Icelandic grammarian as an expert on Bergundian.
May I ask why you simply disregard modern Torah translations of Genesis 1?
This message has been edited by ConsequentAtheist, 12-13-2005 12:18 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by jaywill, posted 12-13-2005 10:44 AM jaywill has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by jaywill, posted 12-13-2005 1:49 PM ConsequentAtheist has replied

  
ConsequentAtheist
Member (Idle past 6268 days)
Posts: 392
Joined: 05-28-2003


Message 40 of 144 (268836)
12-13-2005 2:43 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by jaywill
12-13-2005 1:49 PM


Re: Did August Dillman have any credentials?
If you are not satisfied with these references as an indication of his authority to discuss Hebrew Grammer then don't receive him.
My options are obvious. Your action seems less so. I am trying to determine how you arrived at your evaluation of Mr. Dillmann based solely on your references. I'm suggesting that you may have read into the text what you wanted to hear and, if so, that it might be a tendency worth noting and correcting.
Quote the rendering that you suggest that I consult please.
I began a somewhat long thread on Genesis 1:1-3. While I find Alter poetically pleasing, I am more than satisfied with either Etz Hayim or the new JPS.
This message has been edited by ConsequentAtheist, 12-13-2005 02:44 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by jaywill, posted 12-13-2005 1:49 PM jaywill has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 41 by jaywill, posted 12-13-2005 2:57 PM ConsequentAtheist has replied

  
ConsequentAtheist
Member (Idle past 6268 days)
Posts: 392
Joined: 05-28-2003


Message 43 of 144 (268858)
12-13-2005 3:24 PM
Reply to: Message 41 by jaywill
12-13-2005 2:57 PM


Re: Did August Dillman have any credentials?
Now do you do the same by concluding that he only has the right to weigh in on things pertaining to Coptic Ethiopian versions of Genesis?
My goodness! Where have I ever said anything remotely suggestive of such a position?
This message has been edited by ConsequentAtheist, 12-13-2005 03:30 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by jaywill, posted 12-13-2005 2:57 PM jaywill has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 46 by jaywill, posted 12-13-2005 4:26 PM ConsequentAtheist has not replied

  
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