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Member (Idle past 3402 days) Posts: 301 From: Burlington, Canada Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Would you want to know? | |||||||||||||||||||||||
LinearAq Member (Idle past 4704 days) Posts: 598 From: Pocomoke City, MD Joined: |
Faith writes:
Then you are justifying the lies and deception used by Hovind and his ilk. It protects those with weak faith from losing it when they find out that the Bible is not literaly accurate in its coverage of the creation events.
Yes it's right to lie to protect people from being murdered, infants or God's soldiers in enemy territory. It's not just OK, it is the moral thing to do.
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Brian Member (Idle past 4987 days) Posts: 4659 From: Scotland Joined: |
Are you suggesting there is such a thing as objective evil, and that you know what it consists of? What I suggested is that to any decent human being anyone who condones the killing of babies is pure evil. I never mentioned objective anything. Would you condone the murder of an innocent child Robin? Brian.
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LinearAq Member (Idle past 4704 days) Posts: 598 From: Pocomoke City, MD Joined: |
Faith writes:
I see that you believe when the Bible says "...all have sinned..." it means everyone literally. There is no such thing as an innocent human being from the perspective of God and such an act is His judgment against them. That is clear from scripture. The message one SHOULD get from that, all you who proudly get morally indignant against God, is that the same judgment, in one form or another, in this life and/or the next, is coming to ALL human beings because we all sin -- all those who reject God's offer of safety from it that is.If there is no such thing as an innocent human being then: 1. All the babies who die before they can understand the Gospel are condemned to hell. 2. Crazy people are condemned to hell. 3. Mentally handicapped people are condemned to hell. 4. The babies in Jerico were condemned to hell. 5. The babies who die in the God-ordained tribulations described in Revelations will be condemned to hell. 6. All aborted or miscarried babies are condemned to hell. 7. All persons who did not hear the Gospel before they died are condemned to hell. Perhaps I am not quite understanding all the details, but from what you are saying this god of yours is not very nice or just. That is unless open rejection of His son is required to be sentenced to hell as hinted at in the last line of the quote above.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Brian writes: To any decent human being someone who condones that killing of babies is pure evil, you condemn Muslim terrorists for exactly the same thing. Are you suggesting there is such a thing as objective evil, and that you know what it consists of?
Excellent point, Robin. Those who condemn God's judgments with such resounding indignation do so from an apparently perfect objective position of lofty moral superiority over God Himself. Yet wait, he won't recognize that he is treating his own personal judgment as objective and perfect. What I suggested is that to any decent human being anyone who condones the killing of babies is pure evil.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
What I suggested is that to any decent human being anyone who condones the killing of babies is pure evil. I never mentioned objective anything. Yup, you claim absolute objective moral authority to judge this and then deny that it's objective.
Would you condone the murder of an innocent child Robin? Of course not, nobody would. Most particularly not God. But I bet most of those who get so indignant about God's judgment against the Amalekites condone murdering the unborn in the womb. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
God saves whom He saves. I do not know whom all He will save. He may save many babies, many mentally handicapped. It's not for me to judge. Though I see you have no qualms about judging God.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
No, I'm not condoning lying about science. But I doubt Hovind has lied although I haven't studied up on the particulars. I showed many months ago that some creationist or other wasn't lying though accused of it but nevertheless those who accused the person were believed.
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Brian Member (Idle past 4987 days) Posts: 4659 From: Scotland Joined: |
Excellent point, Robin. In reality, it was a silly point. But keep buttering him up, you may save a soul yet. Personally, I don't think the positive reinforcement technique that cults such as yours use will work on Robin. Brian.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Quite apart from whether Robin ever comes to believe or not, I admire his thinking above all others' here. He sees through the fuzzy logic and the moral posturing. He has the best BS detector of anyone here.
He saw the implication of what you were saying, that you put your own personal moral judgment above the moral judgments of God shown in the Bible. This implies you believe there is an objective morality and you alone can determine what it is. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Brian Member (Idle past 4987 days) Posts: 4659 From: Scotland Joined: |
Yup, you claim absolute objective moral authority to judge this and then deny that it's objective. Your reading comprehension skills are about as poor as Robin's. I didn't mention anything objective. Whether it is objective or subjective is immaterial, murder is outlawed in all civilised societies. I think even in America your courts condemn murder.
Of course not, nobody would. I think he can answer for himself.
Most particularly not God. But in your fantasy world God doesnt believe that any baby is innocent because 6000 years ago a woman ate a fruit that passed on knowledge to her In your fantasy world, all babies are rancid with sin, even the little baby Jesus must have been putrid with in. If only a tiny bit of Christianity was believable it wouldn't de so sad. Brian.
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jar Member (Idle past 422 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Oh I see your logic, but I don't accept your logic. Jesus was utterly sinless, however that came about, because nobody could be saved if He weren't. Why? That makes no sense at all. The whole message of Jesus life and the whole reason that He became MAN was to teach us just the opposite. We are all born with a great big SAVED on our forehead. Only our own personal behavior can damn us. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes: ... you put your own personal moral judgment above the moral judgments of God shown in the Bible. I certainly do. Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation. Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
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Clark Inactive Member |
Oh I see your logic, but I don't accept your logic. Jesus was utterly sinless, however that came about, because nobody could be saved if He weren't. "This will not do." Logic is logic. You can't have you're own logic. I know we're all waiting for Robin to attack your fuzzy illogical religious logic ... Oh wait.
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Brian Member (Idle past 4987 days) Posts: 4659 From: Scotland Joined: |
Quite apart from whether Robin ever comes to believe or not, I admire his thinking above all others' here. He sees through the fuzzy logic and the moral posturing. He has the best BS detector of anyone here. He must be keeping tight lipped about you then
He saw the implication of what you were saying, that you put your own personal moral judgment above the moral judgments of God shown in the Bible. So, why is what God considers evil any less objective that what I consider evil.
This implies you believe there is an objective morality and you alone can determine what it is. Of course there is an objective morality! It may be a different morality for everyone but it is definitely objective. It may be subjective, but isn't it strange that so many people agree with my morality? Brian.
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
Whether it is objective or subjective is immaterial, murder is outlawed in all civilised societies. I think even in America your courts condemn murder. I was speaking of morality, not legality. And just because an idea is popular, this does not mean it is true. Christianity is popular too. Whether an idea is subjective or objective is extremely important if you are trying to use that idea as evidence of something, as you were trying to do. If our morals are subjective, based on our feelings, then our moral judgments are evidence of nothing except to show that that is how we feel. If true, they could only be so by a fluke, not as a result of a logical process. Now we can't prove that any action is morally right or wrong. If we judge an action morally, we have done so illogically. Of course it's something we do all the time, but it's still illogical. It's really an emotional matter, this matter of morals. My morals are conventional, based on nothing but my feelings. Our moral judgments prove nothing at all.
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