Oh those clever evolutionists: Question-begging abiogenesis

Faith, it seems to me that you are arguing that since the abiogenisis is extremely rare therefore there isn't life on Earth.But there is life on Earth.If, instead what you are arguing is that abiogenisis is extremely rare, and there is life on Earth, therefore there must be some other solution to how life got here, you're missing steps in your logic.The argument is: This can happen. It is rare. Here's an example of it having happened.Your counter argument seems to be: That is rare, therefore this completely unrelated thing must have happened.You are missing this step "This can happen".Show us that your alternative explaination (Creation through magic) can happen, then your stool will have 3 legs. Right now, you've got at best 1 and a half.

check the settings in your browser to make sure java is enabled.This message has been edited by jar, 10-05-2005 02:42 PM

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

If you are using IE6 (standard with XP), it disables all java apps by default. Check your settings. It should be under security.

Oh well. Figuring out AOL is as big a problem as anything else. Can't find anything about enabling Java.This message has been edited by Faith, 10-05-2005 03:46 PM

What Browser do you use?

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

I'm using AOL. I went to AOL "settings" but got lost.

Isn't AOL its own browser?

nope. It bundles several browsers based on version. The most recent is a bastardized version of Netsacpe that emulates IE and Netscape poorly. Earlier ones bundled IE.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

It's been years since I used AOL, so I won't try to answer. Hopefully there's a fellow AOL'er online here who can help.I know AOL has a pretty good help facility. What happens if you type "java" or "enable java" into their help box?Another possibility - what happens if you explicitly bring up a browser (either Internet Explorer, Netscape or FireFox, it shouldn't matter) while you're logged in to AOL? Does the browser come up in its own window?--Percy

Thats a good point. IE should work as long as your logged on to AOL. Try and use IE vs. the build in AOL browser.

I'd already tried that and got a series of links that didn't seem to go anywhere. Tried again and ended up here: Trouble is I can't find anything labeled "tools" or "internet options"And unfortunately I'm taking way too much time with this and have to get back to work.Maybe we can chat later, when I have more time to figure it all out.

I've never used anything BUT AOL and don't have a clue about IE or anything else. Sorry.In any case I have to exit for a while. Thanks for help. Maybe later I'll have time to sort it all out.

Hi Faith,I think you should change from AOL. You may find it confusing for a while as you become accustomed to whichever mainstream browser you choose, but in the long run you'll be much happier. It's not that AOL is inherently bad or anything, though there are many of that viewpoint, but it's unnecessary, an extra layer of software you don't need and shouldn't pay for, plus it can get in the way of accessing some features of the Internet. If you have young children and you need it for filtering I guess that's a good argument for AOL, but other justifications are probably hard to come by, other than familiarity and inertia. Is AOL also your ISP?--Percy

I'm sorry, but special creation sets the question back REGARDLESS of entity. Let's say we definitively prove that abiogenesis cannot occur under any conditions anywhere, and that initial lifeforms must have been manufactured.That does not get us to who, how, or why. And miracles would just be handwaving. What mechanisms were used would have to be investigated.If we find out it was some powerful intelligent force outside of our time and space, it could be powerful extradimensional beings or Gods, the next relevant question will still be what came BEFORE THEM. How did THEY come to exist. An answer that as Gods or noncorporeal beings there was no other thing before them, is not automatically true nor acceptable.And I should add that if it IS considered good enough for God, then it could be true for extradimensional entities/aliens as well.Other than that, I agree that we are faced with the possibility of life naturally occuring or being created intentionally... heheheh, or a mix of both. Given that there is no evidence for intentional creation outside of myths in books written by humans, with each creation story of one faith rejected by the other, its a bit odd to suggest that intentional creation has any reason to be believed, other than a nice feeling such a thought may provide.On the other hand there are lots of complex chemical reactions which have the potential to become the precursors for life, and then life, and carbon compounds are found throughout space. So that latter option (natural), while having no direct evidence, does have some plausible mechanisms and has as yet no contrary evidence.I don't know which one is true, but I do know which one is the most supportable from a scientific standard as a theory.I assume you agree with this analysis?

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holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)

Nope, I'm arguing that since it is extremely rare, it is evidence for a Creator.Your statement here is another of those very funny/sad question-beggings. This begging-the-question that continues to go on here is the flat-out denial that a Creator is the reasonable alternative explanation despite the fact that abiogenesis is EXTREMELY unlikely. Your calling it "magic" is just another version of the question-begging or total denial of the position of your opponents and flat assertion of your own assumption.This message has been edited by Faith, 10-05-2005 05:11 PM