got time?
Maybe it's because the Bible isn't consistent in fact nor in moral message and contradicts itself all over the place?
At any rate, God quite directly instructs his people to take slaves.
How do you feel about that?
Or it is not telling us the whole story, that's why we don't understand it. The stories in the bible are very short summaries, and do not include all the details of what it was like to live back then, or could they compare it our time for which they knew nothing about. The author assumes the person reading it already has an understanding of how life is, and what is accepted or not.
I am sure there were people who did not treat thier slaves correctly. The Jews being a victim of that, and then being delivered from that. So what I do not understand is why they would turn around and then have slaves themselves. It must have been a condition that we just do not understand. That is why I speculate that being a slave was more like being someone's employee, with a few other rules in there, that we as a society do not accept today. Maybe slavery was a neccesity for survival, it was the group effort that let them survive in such harsh enviroments. Maybe slaves were people who no means of survival, and thier only way to survive was to become a slave, and be protected by thier owners.
It was the person who got too greedy, and had too many slaves, treated them bad, and did not provide adiquit care for them, that gave slavery a bad name.
We cannot relate to it, because we can self sustain ourselves today no matter our intelligence, or physical condition. We have the police to protect us, and all these laws to protect us. So slavery is no longer neccesary.
On the flip side, sometimes now I feel like a slave to those people who choose not to work for a living and are completely capable and support themselves from our hard earned tax dollars. So to me slavery is not dead, it has just taken many new forms, that we do not recognize yet. That is why I say 2000 years from now society will look back at our time, and see many barbaric things. So I say it is all relative.
Slavery in the bible did not stop me from finding Jesus of the NT, or being baptised by the Holy Spirit that Jesus had promised us. I did not fully understand God's love until that happened. I had asked myself the same questions about slavery most of you propose here, and all I can say is that I have not learned enough about it to give a qualified answer. I may never learn enough about it to give a qualified answer, or a justified answer, bcause maybe all the facts are not there. So I speculate, and just offer my opinion.
Anyway, the god that would both encourage slavery and destroy every living thing, including innocent newborn infants, does not impress me as a loving, benevolent God.
He seems terribly vengeful, spiteful, and cruel.
That is that feeling of independance that God gives you, and your free will. But if God is the creator of the universe, he is the potter, and we are his clay, and if the pot doesn't look right, or it is not performing its intended job, then the potter would have to correct it. I meam who are we to question the God who just spoke some words and the universe appeared? Not everything in life has an explanation, or does the bible promise us all good times. He does promise us eternal life, and continuing love after life on this planet. But how can we see the light, unless we also see the dark as well.
Do you think that after giving us free will, that God should come down and love those people that continue slavery today? Or should they be punished?
I'm not really sure how you can justify thinking that "God is love" when he encouraged his people to own human beings as chattel.
I am saying that we don't fully understand it.
I am not for slavery btw, incase you were wondering.
However I do have employees that work for me, and I do not treat them bad, they are very happy to work for me.
I really just cannot believe I am reading this.
It was SLAVERY, riverrat.
SLAVERY in your mind may not be the actual slavery that happened.
It says in one of the links I provided, that people gave themselves up for slvery. Tell me why would one do that if it was so horrible?
quote:Burundi, Africa.
Well, in a few minute's research I found out that most people in Burundi are Roman Catholic.
Before the Catholic missionaries got there, they had their own traditional ancestor-worshipping religions.
So, yes, I guess you are correct that colonization by the Germans in 1899 with the Belgians taking over soon after that caused the forced or coerced Christianization of many Burundis at that time.
Exactly, and it was those people that do not believe in free will, or freedom of religion, and want to have control over the tribes, that came out of the jungle and massacred over 150 people who were living in peace. My charity org was there, and raising orphans, who were slain by the rebels. We were helping them to survive, and become a self sustaining village, as we do in all places, and they were murdered by the same kind of people that you despise so much.
Burundi massacre and the continuing conflict in the Congo - World Socialist Web Site
Those children were probably made orphans by the same rebels.
So, do you agree with me that it is only your opinion that the people in Burundi "need to be shown the light.", and that their religion is just as valid as yours?
Yes, and so do you, if you knew all the facts. Above us feeling like they should know Jesus, is us believing that they should have the right to choose, and teach them how to self sustain themselves in an organized society, and stop murdering themselves.
You should not, however, be connecting your physical help with trying to "show them the light". How arrogant it is for you to assume that they need to be shown anything about religion.
Get a grip, these people kill each other, thier religion isn't working for them, that's not my opinion. Whether they choose Jesus or not, they should shown that there is another way for them, so they can stop killing themselves.
Do you believe that people can and often do make rash descisions when they are in emotionally charged, desperate, life-threatening situations?
Yes or no?
You cannot possibly know what is on a persons heart. You make it sound like we won't help them if they do not accept Jesus. What they choose is between them and God, not us and them, we won't stop helping them either way.
I can't believe how you feel about this.
So, are you saying that you do not respect for other religions, and that the religion of the people you are helping is inferior to yours?
It's not even about religion. I hate that f#$%ing word. It's about love. Love wins, period. Love conquers all.
If thier religion is not allowing them to love, or teaching them to love, then yes, it is inferior to my beliefs.
If thier religion is allowing them to love, then I cannot be the judge of whos religion is better. However, there are parts of the world where we are not allowed to say the word Jesus, or God, or anything religious, but that doesn't stop us from going in and trying to help them. The recent Tsunami is a prime example of this. But somehow the power of Love is greater than all, and they come to know the lord without us even talking about it. People in Africa get angelic visitations, who never even heard the word Jesus, and accept the Lord.
People like you who have gone through whatever you went through do not see Jesus as love, so you do not understand it. You base your beliefs on anger towards God, and religion. I once felt the same way. But I find you hypocritical because you are shunning me for not accepting all religions, and you yourself do not accept religion.
And besides over 60% of the people in Burundi are Roman Catholic.
And that means...................ta da, absolutly nothing. You see I do not believe in the Roman Catholic religion. As a matter of fact I despise it, as I feel it is a hinderance from knowing the true love of Jesus. However, some people do find the Lord through that religion, so I won't judge it for others, but only myself.
Since becoming "born again", I have asked several Catholics: "who or what is the Holy Spirit" and they cannot even answer that. So Jesus sends us a guide in life, and all these people claim to be Christian, but yet know nothing about the guide that thier God sent them. What's wrong with this picture?
Study it yourself, do a bible study on Acts. Them go around asking catholics about the Holy Spirit. You will be amazed at the answers you get.
You see I am not against denomenations, and other religions, as our God is a deverse God, and I see a need for different ways to get to know him. But I also see problems and corruption, and evil spirits at work as well. I am not even against atheism, as this is how some people come to know the Lord. Our paths are all different, but our destination is the same. I was told by Jesus to not judge, but to love, and that is what I am trying to do, to the best of my abilities.
You are going to destroy cultures with it, though.
I find that to be an immoral thing to do.
Yes, that can happen if the true message of love is not preached. Or if we do not display true love, then it is a waste. True love cannot be wrong. Judgemental rule making tradition making religions are detremental to our society.
But our nation was not destroyed by Christianinty, and it is where you live, and want to live.
quote:If Christianity didn't exist, the world would still be a crap hole of place to live sometimes.
Tell that to the Native Americans and see what kind of reaction you get.
You have a point there, but it wasn't Christianity that destroyed it. It was the inability of people in Euroupe to follow the true message of Jesus, that caused us to go out and look for new land. Then it was the desease that we brought with us that really killed off the Indians. There is a movement on our nation right now amoung native Indians turning to Christ. With thier already pure ways, and Christ, they make awesome Christians, yet still keep there heritage.
check this band out:
Broken Walls | Breaking Walls of Separation
So, tell me how ancestor worship is killing people in Burundi.
Or, tell me how Roman Catholocism is killing people in Burundi.
Or Islam.
IMO, none of that is directly to blame. But I am not qualified to answer that. But true love would not kill.
Was he physically OWNED by the airline?
Once they destroyed his physical lung, and gave him $30,000 for it, he was.
He could have quit his job at any time, correct?
If that was the only means for provision for him at the time, no he couldn't. Just like a person who would give himself to slavery.
What price did you get since he was damaged property?
I got a nice person who is limited by his physical condition that happened to him by the airline. I have to worry about him everyday. I didn't get a price for him, but I pay a price for his medical condition now. So does he.
Unless you are saying that the airline is not liable for what happened to his physical condition?
Remember, the reason we are having this very silly conversation is because you want to conflate two VERY, VERY DIFFERENT definitions of the word "slavery" and use them interchangeably.
And you are taking my point way out of context. remember my original point was that 2000 years from now, our society will ook back at what we do today as barbaric. I am not saying that it is equally barbaric as what went on 4000 years ago. I am saying I do not understand what slavery was 4000 years ago. It doesn't sound good to me now, but I do not have all the facts.
Should a major catastrophy happen in the world today, and few people were left on the planet, it just might revert back to law of the land. People with the most power, or strnegth will rule, and slavery might become neccesary again, no matter what you think is right or wrong. Should God stop this from happening? If youthink he should, then he should stop everything bad from happening, and we should be living in the garden again, but then we would just screw up again, and eat from the tree. It's our nature. How can we see the light, unless we can see the dark as well. You know the best way to learn is by your own mistakes.
Now I remember why it is so irritating to converse with you. You are incredibly good at running the debate aground with these ridiculous side debates in which you refuse to accept the meaning of a term or concept. I've got to admit that it is a really great diversionary tactic as it keeps you off of the hotseat WRT the stuff you can't or don't want to address.
I have POWER !!!! lol
I think if you really read what I was trying to say, you wouldn't feel that way. I think you read over my words to quick, or with the wrong mindset, and constantly miss my point. It is part my fault, as I do not express myself well with written words. I am more of a mathematical/hands on person.
If it makes you feel better, yes, slavery by todays definition does not fit what I am describing, but what I am saying is that we are not free from bondage just yet.
Jesus came to set his captives free.
that but I wonder about the literal 100% correct and true crowd.
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