"The Exodus Revealed" Video II

Let's parse the following statements. Please show how that relates to the Exodus revealed video?

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Charles,Once again, any reasonable person will conclude these finds to be major. Finding coral shaped chariot wheels, + a gold gilded wheel, + human bones, + horse bones, + human rib cage, + cattle bones, + chariot boxes (the cab itself), + broken wheels (pictures that are in Moller's book, but not available online, but they are CLEAR and DISTINCT), should be enough to jolt the senses of any honest person who wants to know the truth concerning the Word of God.God is trying to speak to you Charles, and you are resisting. You are resisting the Spirit of God. This is an opportunity, and you may be at the fork in your life. I entreat you be wise in the direction, for once you continue on the wrong path, the possibilities of you ever returning grow slimmer and slimmer. Just like King Saul...the more he resisted counsil, the harder he became, and the softer the whispers of the Spirit of God became.You're on a down-hill slope to perdition if you continue on your demonic crusade--this I know.This message has been edited by Lysimachus, 08-09-2004 01:27 PM

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~Lysimachus

Emotive - no evidence presented. pleading and usual vague christian threats Translation: I've lost the arguement so I'll try and make out that charles is working for satan - yeah that's a plan! hopefully he will blow his top and I can make out he is unreasonableThis message has been edited by Charles Knight, 08-09-2004 01:31 PM

Jar,

quote:

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Please show how that relates to the Exodus revealed video?

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Because I can see the anger built up on you. It showed in that last drawing--how you scribbled it. You're mad, because you and others know very well that Hydarnes, Buzsaw, JimSDA, and myself have done our duty to present the solid evidence...you and Charles are madder than a hornets nest, because you know you're losing the debates in these threads...and losing them badly.This message has been edited by Lysimachus, 08-09-2004 05:38 PM

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~Lysimachus

You wouldn't be speaking like that to me if you knew me in person. You need to get a hold of yourself and try and percieve what we are saying instead of defending yourself.You're defending yourself Charles...quit defending yourself, it's not helping you any.

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~Lysimachus

it's a nice attempt but I've seen this tactic sooooo many times it's sad.Basically you don't have a arguement so you are currently trying to provoke either Jar or me into some rash hate-filled response. This would allow you to retreat from the thread while claiming that our abusive attitude forced you to do so.This is a really nice example here: Notice both the language and the emotive tone - both used to present myself in a negative light.sorry it will not wash - like I said before water off a duck's back.Now let's press on with our examination of the evidence....This message has been edited by Charles Knight, 08-09-2004 01:38 PM

I would however like to thank both Jim and Lysimachus for presenting this masterclass in creationist debating tactics. Some great examples in this thread.

Let's parse that statement."List to me every single campaign that ever took place in this area around Nuweiba beach."What does that have to do with the Exodus Video? I can no more connect the wheel (if it even exists) to a particular campaign than you can connect it to the Exodus. In addition, there is not even any evidence that the wheel even originated in that area."I want documented sources of every campaign, by which civilizations, and over what."Again, smoke and mirrors. What you are doing is once again trying to change the issue. Even if there was a day by day chronology of that part of the Gulf of Aqaba, it has nothing to do with the Video.You people are making a claim thata) the wheels exist.
b) that the wheels date from the 18th. Dynasty.
c) that the wheels are realted to the alleged Exodus instead of any other event.Do not think you can play shell games. We will keep your eye on the real issues.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Please keep the focus of this thread on the asserted evidence found in the Exodus Revealed video.The thread really will get closed down if it degenerates into proslytizing or xian and/or atheist condemning.

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AdminAsgara
Queen of the Universe

http://asgarasworld.bravepages.com
http://perditionsgate.bravepages.com

Jar,Don't forget, I want specific answers to my questions regarding which campaigns were known to have taken place around the Nuweiba area.

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~Lysimachus

quote:

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What does that have to do with the Exodus Video? I can no more connect the wheel (if it even exists) to a particular campaign than you can connect it to the Exodus. In addition, there is not even any evidence that the wheel even originated in that area.

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You're the one claiming that there were "a number of campaigns in the area", to try and "nullify" the possibility of an Exodus. You're saying that since there were these campaigns, this "could" be an explanation for the wheel discoveries. And I want to know what campaigns these were.

quote:

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Again, smoke and mirrors. What you are doing is once again trying to change the issue. Even if there was a day by day chronology of that part of the Gulf of Aqaba, it has nothing to do with the Video.

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You people are making a claim that

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a) the wheels exist.
b) that the wheels date from the 18th. Dynasty.
c) that the wheels are realted to the alleged Exodus instead of any other event.

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Do not think you can play shell games. We will keep your eye on the real issues.

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That's just it...we really don't know of any campaigns that can offer a logical explanation for how these wheels got there. You're saying that these "ghost campaigns" could provide an answer. So in turn, I want to know which campaigns these were.I'm open here. I want to know what campaigns! Before we didn't believe these wheels had any relation to any campaigns in the area, but you're telling me there were campaigns. So PLEASE! LIST TO ME THE CAMPAIGNS!

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~Lysimachus

well how about you list your evidence and where it is?That's something you have failed to do over three threads!

Yea, but it isn't fun anymore. I don't have any friends or acquaintances who think that the literalists deserver "equal time" anymore. I used to but people like Jim and others here convinced them that this is a really dumb idea. I'll have to hunt for some more.

Alright folks. Here is an example of how W.A.R. conducts it's research. Notice that they are very well organized. Also notice the data that has been outputted regarding the "land bridge".---------------------------------------------------May 2000 Dive Trip
by Aaron Sen & Ross PattersonIn May of this year another dive took place in the Red Sea at Nuweiba in order to continue the search for the remains of Pharaoh's army. This dive was led by Mark Kransburg from Norway, and the divers included Ross Patterson from Australia, Viveka Ponten from Sweden, Michael Redman and Aaron Sen from Britain and Tor Larsen from Norway.We dove for seven days, and to our surprise our friend and colleague Dr. Lennart Moller was also in the area with a Los Angeles based producer and underwater cameraman. They were from "Discovery Media Productions" and had a remote-controlled camera that they were sending down to survey the coral covered artifacts in this area. After a few days, Jerry Harned the Post Production Supervisor and Joseph Condeelis the underwater cameraman, joined us on our boat to take additional underwater footage. They are planning on releasing their documentary video around January 2001. More information on this will be shared as it becomes available.Also on board was Ian Rodley from New Zealand who has much experience in the use of depth sounding equipment. He brought along his depth sounder, the "Simrad CE32 Chart Plotter" plus Global Positioning System, to carry out depth soundings along the seabed in order to chart its shape and layout. It is one of the most advanced small portable units around and to the best of my knowledge is still the latest model.We discovered that there is indeed an extremely gradual slope out to sea of about 1 in 14 as it goes out from Nuweiba, and about 1 in 10 as it rises back up to Saudi Arabia. Ian commented on how smooth the pathway was as well. Usually a seabed would be quite undulating, but we could see from the screen how easy it would have been for the Israelites to cross on such a smooth pathway. After returning from Egypt and evaluating information his company collected there, Jerry Harned said, "I have plotted a route across the Gulf of Aquaba from the Nuweiba side to the Saudi Arabian side that allows for an 8% grade. He said that his plot is based upon a recent depth chart published by Dr. John Hall of the Israeli Geological Survey." He admits that his calculation method may be primitive and that the results need expert review, but they are encouraging.Below is a picture of what we saw on the depth sounder screen. It was very reassuring to see the results, and to see that the pathway really does extend across the Gulf of Aqaba at this point, as the presence of an under water land bridge has been strongly doubted by many critics. At last we could see first hand the underwater pathway. There are several different maps in circulation all with slightly different data, but our results corresponded closely to the Israeli map.After he returned to California, Jerry Harned wrote , "I have also started plotting Ian's sounding data to chart and comparing his data with that of the other charts available. After plotting the trip of May 4 his data appears consistent with the Israeli Geo. Survey chart. Further plotting will help confirm the situation."Our results also made sense, in light of this comment from the Israeli Marine Geophysicist and Head of the GSI’s Marine Geology, Mapping & Tectonics Division. "In answer to your message to me via Ya’akov Arkin, there is a land bridge off Nuweiba. It rises to depths of slightly more than 850 m, with depths of greater than a kilometer to the north and south." That made sense, as the ETOP05 satellite map and the British Admiralty Chart have since been declared inaccurate.Talking about the same formation other experts don't call it a land bridge. For example the Marine Geophysicist, & Head of the M.G., M. & T. Division said bluntly, "Your land bridge simply doesn't exist." However, he doesn't deny that the formation exists. Apparently the argument is, "does a 1/2 mile deep ridge constitute a land-bridge?" Either way, there's no doubt anymore that there is a smooth pathway across the Gulf of Aqaba at this place with a very steep drop off on either side.Below is the raw data showing the course we travelled while plotting. Where the red lines are clustered together at the bottom left, this is the southern bay where the diving has been taking place. The data is sampling at about 1 reading every two seconds. Below is a more useful picture, with the data superimposed onto a satellite photo. The different colours of the course data represent different depth ranges. If we had covered the whole of the area in a grid pattern about 100m apart, and this map was totally filled in; the depth contours would show up as coloured bands. But our main interest was checking out the slope of the crossing path, and the depth in the middle of the gulf. On May 5th we decided to take the boat directly toward Saudi Arabia, to wards the point where Viveka recorded on her GPS the location of chariot remains. As you will see in the picture, the course we took to Saudi was just slightly south of due east. As expected, we lost the bottom when the reading went over about 550m, as that is the maximum depth range of the SIMRAD.We let the skipper keep going to see how close we could get to Saudi, and we actually passed the half way mark! Then when the skipper felt we had reached the limit of how far he could go without Saudi permission, we turned north for about 1 mile, then turned west and plotted all the way back to Nuweiba. It was exciting to get so close to Saudi Arabia!Because of the in built GPS, it was possible to pre-program a course into it, and the display would indicate if you are keeping to that course, or whether you needed to steer the boat to bring it back on course. This makes plotting in a grid pattern very easy. We had hoped to do a systematic plotting grid for mapping the depth contours, but as it turned out, the weather was quite choppy almost the whole time we were there, which was unusual.We dove with Minelab's "Excaliber 1000" metal detector. It uses Minelab's unique Broad Band Spectrum technology, which enables them to transmit automatically at 17 individual frequencies at the same time, and could penetrate about 2 metres below the seabed.On one dive at about 28 metres, we located a wheel shaped coral. It was the right size for a chariot wheel, and we could clearly see what would be the hub and 6 spokes. I signaled Mark to sweep it with the metal detector and he got a positive reading around the rim, but not the spokes or hub. There was a good amount of coral growing on it, but the features were clearly visible. I tried to move it, but it wouldn't budge.We also found tiny amounts of metals in various corals. When we turned these corals upside down, we saw a great deal of very distinct rust colour, and the discoloration on the coral certainly looked like iron. This makes sense because if these were remains of the Pharaoh's army, and have been lying around since 1446 BC, then a lot of the metals would have rusted away, leaving only tiny amounts of metal. Ian Rodley's ReportI was in Nuweiba with Aaron Sen, Ross Patterson and others in May 2000 and did depth soundings which, I believe, confirmed the accuracy of the Israeli Marine Geology, Mapping & Tectonics Division bathymetric chart. This chart shows a maximum depth of around 800 metres along the crossing site. Unfortunately my equipment reached a depth of only 500 metres because of the high salt content in the Gulf of Aqaba (my echo sounder would normally reach depths down to 800 metres).I do not accept that a 'landbridge' exists but there is most definitely a 'pathway' in the sea with gentle slopes of around 1 in 10 to 1 in 14 gradient. We traveled in a due east direction from the Nuweiba bay to the Saudi coastline and clearly identified the 'pathway'. We traveled more than halfway across but we lost readings beyond 500 metres.I hope to return to Nuweiba sometime later this year with a more powerful echo sounder to confirm and extend the survey we did in May.A group in the United States are presently doing an analysis of our sounding data in conjunction with the Israeli bathymetric chart and other information they have obtained about the sea bed in the Gulf of Aqaba region. The results look very interesting. To date, the results confirm a 'pathway' with gentle slopes at only one point in the Gulf of Aqaba - east from Nuweiba Bay to the Saudi coast.I believe we confirmed the accuracy of the Bible on 3 counts.1. The crossing pathway is in a due east direction - Exodus 14:21. The Saudi coastline waypoint is due east of the Nuweiba Bay - a diver (Viveka Ponten) located chariot parts and a shallow drop-off on the Saudi side. This is confirmed by the Israeli chart.2. God provided a roadway on the seabed that could be easily traversed.3. It was very deep - what a miracle! You can understand why the nations trembled.Isaiah 51:10 "Are you not the One who dried up the sea, the waters of the great deep; That made the depths of the sea a road for the redeemed to crossover?"-------------------------------------------------------------------Stuff like this needs to be posted, since people usually don't like to take the time to read it when it is on a separate page.

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~Lysimachus

when did this happen? By who? Where are the results?