Faith

One more thing about odds, since you seem to love them so much.
Question, pharmiceutical companys even print odds in their medicine safety sheets. They might say something like .1% of people who take viagra will have a woody for the rest of their lives.Ok so does that mean I have a .1% chance of getting a woody for the rest of my life, or does it mean the person who was created to react to that drug has a 100% chance of reacting bad to that drug, and he is the only one who will get the woody for the rest of his life.I know how your going to answer, your going to tell me that it is .1% of the people who take the drug who could have that reaction. So if I'm the one who's going to have that reaction, what does that odd mean to me? Nothing TA DA! because I have a 100% chance of reacting with that drug, and thats what I need to know.So if I took that drug and put my FAITH in the idea that I have .1% chance of not getting a woody for the rest of my life, and not think to myself I am taking a big chance no matter what the odds, who's the fool?

Here's another question about odds.I have jumped off a bridge several times in my life. I jump off a 35ft bridge in Pennsylvania into the water all the time. What are my odds that I will get hurt?Wait, I'll try to answer for you again, your going to say, that all depends, a boat could come by, and bird could fly in my face, I could jump wrong. A lot of things could happen that could make me get hurt when jumping. But the odds are if you attempt to jump right, you won't get hurt. GREAT!But, at the very moment that you jump, you still say to yourself, I hope I don't get hurt. You also sometimes, even though the odds are in your favor, throw caution to the wind. So I put my FAITH in a hope that I won't get hurt. What does this all mean?Ta Da ! Nothing. Because people will still cut the wires in that fence and jump off that bridge for years to come.This message has been edited by riVeRraT, 09-03-2004 05:56 AM

Off topic question,
If you die tomorrow (I hope you don't) does the sun still rise?

Since your so smart, do I really need to explain the difference between the odds of something, and the idea of jumping off a bridge? The 2 are completely different, yet you still think that they have something to do with each other, for which you are famous for.I wouldn't jump off that bridge if the odds were 1% that I would crush my skull. I don't play games with my life, which has nothing to do with discussing odds. No, I don't. Like I said the odds for me personally might be 0%. The only way to find out is to jump. So we won't find out my odds. This is what I'm telling you. This is why odds are sometimes not good scientific data, or a reason to believe in one thing or another. Thats why I said if no outside forces get involved. Yes I do, because we don't know the exact weight of planet earth, we cannot nail down the gravitational constant. Since statistics are taken by and recorded by man, oh yea.
Just like church is run by man, thats why I don't really care for religion, but that doesn't stop me from going to church.Is probability an odd? lmao, Faith in it?
You see all those people fleeing Florida because of a probabilty forcast? No thats faith.Mathematics? I used to think that math was a constant. 2+2will always =4. I have seen thinking contrary to that in this forum. So I am starting to wonder if math is a constant. I realize that some unproven mathematical formulas might require an element of faith to believe in, but maybe the easy stuff, or proven stuff will never change, as long as 1=1. If you can theorize when 1 does not = 1 then please enlighten me.

I don't see that. I don't think that it its clear. I see the passion that people belive in science and all its predicted outcomes. People in here even devote their lives to studying it. People in here, whether they would admit it or not would use certain aspects of science to not believe in God.
They have faith even if they think they don't.
Just because they wouldn't admit it, doen't mean they don't have faith.
Many people are trying to prove to me all these things are so close to being 100% that we should believe in them.
Read that last scentence.

I don't have a problem with that, if that is the complete truth.
Just because a person is a scientist, doesn't make him 100% honest.

Right, which is why I do not accept things as fact no matter what the odds are.

Right, but not only dishonesty can drive scientists to come up with wrong results.
It would seem nowadays that with the evidence for evolution being so strong that scientists would collect data and first see how it fits into an evolutionary model. If it doesn't fit or cannot be explained, then it would be put to the side until a later date when it could then be explained.Also, our ignorance to many things can keep us from knowing the truth. Go back into history and see all the scientific theories that have been, and see how they have been changed. But at the time it was accepted. Now we can look back at certain things and laugh. So 300 years from now we might look back at certain things we accept now, and laugh.
I am not saying this will happen or not, but just that I won't let it be my God. I will accept what we know now as the best possible answers and use the science we now have to my benefit. But I will not accept it as fact.I just got done watching the science channel and they did a survey of judging peoples faces to be trust worthy or not. It was the most ridiculus thing I have ever seen, and they would accept it as scientific data is just plain stupid. I totally did not agree with the results, and that would be because we all have different way of looking at things. There is just way to many variables involved for a survey like that to ever be accurate or be of any use. But that didn't stop them from trying it, and then publishing the results on TV, then the general public would look at it and say, "oh". Its science media. To me all media sucks. It takes a lot for me to accept something as being true, as I have seen too much lies. The only thing to me that remains true is God's word, and his promises. I can look into someones eye's and the Holy Spirit would tell me right away if this person is trust worthy or not. I do not need to judge him by his/her features.

Judging by your post count, you are new here. But as you go along and read, people will argue that based on a collective amount of evidences that it is so over welming, that evolution is fact.

Yes, but I would have to meet them at least, and experience some sort of exchange with them, and then be able to judge if what they are saying is coming from a trust worthy source.
I wouldn't even try to judge someone I have never meet or had any dealings with, its not my place to. Also doing it over the internet doesn't seem to work, because its too easy to lie. Remember I need to see the persons eyes.
I could make a general assumption based on what a person writes, but I still wouldn't know if it was coming from their heart. This increases with the more writing that goes back and forth. I would judge by the short conversations that we had, that for the most part you seem trust worthy, and a realist. But that is only based on the actual words that were exchanged, not who you really are.

I said I would have to look into their eyes, and then ask the Holy Spirit if they were honest.
I use the Holy Spirit as a guide in my life at least 90% of the time. The other 10% would be me just being me, and usually screwing up or trying to take on the world, or something. Nothing too bad though.
I am human.

I agree with gravity, but I am not so sure I agree with evolution as being fact. I went thourgh a huge discussion about this, and it may be me just being stubborn, or I might just have a valid point.
Either way its not a lock that, that is how we got here. Even it was, I would be fine with that.

Actually, no I don't need to see the person. But on the internet, I would never really be able to tell if the person was lying, so it would be pointless to even try.
But the truth knows the truth.

When I see analgy's that make sense, then I will accept them.
The way you analogize, its no wonder you think the way you do.
You seem to thin if I jump off the bridge, that it would make some kind of difference in the actual odds.
I'm telling you, that you cannot figure out the odds, not even by jumping off. My point is, what does that have to do with the price of milk? Unless it was 100% proven, than I wouldn't have to "believe" in it.
I believe Happy Atheist is saying the same thing I am in different words, but you pick on me because I am the Christian? Your ANALOGY is a scewd. That would be cool, but you like to compare apples to oranges.
Your saying because there is a high chance that my head will get crushed after jumping off a bridge, that I should accept all science. Which is why I take science for what its worth, and its not my God.
Understand? You see, thats not what I said. I said if the odds are that it will change, then it will eventually change. It's murphy's law.What makes one weeks lotto have winners of several, and the next weeks not have any? It cannot be explained by odds. You can attempt to, but it has no bearing on the actual outcome of a given situation. So I cannot justify believing in something based on the odds. Because unlike you, I do not claim to know the odds, only that they will change. The FACT that some people would die, while others would live. Isn't that evidence that odds are person specific? But I guess it doesn't fit into the sceitific model you have in your head already, and you are not being unbiased in your thinking process. Therefor you are not scientific, and science is your faith. Lights on but no-ones home?Thats what I'm telling you, that is why I take science for what it is worth, and it is not my God. That doesn't stop me from enjoying science, which I Love, just not as much as God. I guess not, am I losing you?
Go back a few posts and read. I said that gravity would have an affect, if it was in effect, and no outside forces were involved. But then you said what if an outside force was involved, so you completely missed my point. Because if I jump off a bridge I fall.
Now please, mutate yourself into a whale, so I can see evolution at work. If you do that, I'll jump off the bridge. I am not comparing religion to science. I said it wasn't my religion, because I am right, science is not a religion, but some would appear to treat it as such. What is it you are really trying to say? So you never seen a hurricane change it's path at the last second?
Or weaken?So many different things can happen, so its by faith that they are leaving. It's not a lock that it will happen, just like the rest of science.

There are 5 very different words there.
Whats your point?