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Member (Idle past 1436 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Candy and games and responsibility. | |||||||||||||||||||||||
nator Member (Idle past 2200 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Blaming the victim. You are the scammer in this situation, dishonestly taking advantage of someone doing their job in good faith. If you don't think that is wrong and immoral and unethical, then I guess you just don't know the difference between right and wrong, and don't believe in treating others the way you wish to be treated.
quote: You are lying in order to steal something you never intended to pay for. Remind me to never hire you for a job. You might rob me blind just because you could. Do you phone up old ladies with great "investment deals" that they can take advantage of if they give you their bank account number?
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CK Member (Idle past 4158 days) Posts: 3221 Joined: |
quote: What's wishing got to do with it? That's how I would expect any Client I deal with to act, to get the best deal possible - I often have people trying to pick my brains so they can then source services from a cheaper provider. The trick is to give them just enough, so they can see that you know what you are on about and get them to sign on the dotted line.
quote: You are suggesting that I would do something illegal, nope. Would I maximize the benefit that I would get from the firm - yep.
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nator Member (Idle past 2200 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Is the only reason you wouldn't rob me blind because it is illegal? If so, you have no honor or morals or ethics. That makes you a sociopath.
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nator Member (Idle past 2200 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: However, you are a consultant, so what is in your brain is the only product you are selling. In the retail shop you are scamming, they are selling two products; the expert knowledge they have in their brains and a physical product you can hold in your hand. Both of these are paid for by the company. If you consume that expert knowledge with no intention of paying for it and without telling them up front that this is your intention, you have stolen from the company just the same as if you had shoplifted something or taken money out of the till.
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CK Member (Idle past 4158 days) Posts: 3221 Joined: |
quote: LOL - You yanks make me laugh, always with the melodrama.
quote: Well they better get the police to arrest me then. Oh but they can't as I haven't broken any law!
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nator Member (Idle past 2200 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
Is the only reason you wouldn't rob me blind because it is illegal?
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coffee_addict Member (Idle past 508 days) Posts: 3645 From: Indianapolis, IN Joined: |
Boy, am I glad I don't know jack about economics.
For goodness's sake, please vote Democrat this November! Why? Bush is a right wing nutcase.
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CK Member (Idle past 4158 days) Posts: 3221 Joined: |
it's a silly example - how do we measure the expert knowledge that I've consumed?
What if I go into a shop wanting to buy something but even though the advice is good, I get a bad vibe off the salesman. That's ok because I have love in my heart. No I would not rob you. The deal has always been - try and convince me and I'll buy something - yes I have no intention of buying something, but that's the same as people who are browsing - are they wasting the guy's time when they ask some questions. One salesman actually did convince me once (when I'd had no intention of purchasing something) it was the early 1990s but it happened.
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CK Member (Idle past 4158 days) Posts: 3221 Joined: |
You know that man wants certain things and has to make choises about what he does with his limited resources?
Well if you do, you know everything you ever need to know about economics.
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nator Member (Idle past 2200 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: There is a difference, ethically, and also economically, between 1)getting a knowledgeable sales pitch at a shop and then deciding not to purchase the product, and 2)going to a shop specifically to get expert advice when you know that you have no intention whatsoever of buying the product there. This second scenario is definitely a scam that costs that business money to wait on you and train that employee to be able to answer your questions and tell you the various attributes of the choices available at the shop. I agree that this is a bit of a gray area, but if there is one shop that offers expert advice, and three discount shops that offer no advice at all, expert or otherwise, then the expert service is certinly measurable; the one shop has it, the other three do not.
quote: Why not? What if it was legal to do so? If an action isn't illegal, does that also mean it is ethical or moral? Remember, the only reason you initially gave for not robbing me was because it was illegal, not because it was unethical or immoral.
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nator Member (Idle past 2200 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: You know that man wants certain things and has to make choises about what he does with his limited resources, and that the choices each person makes has effects for themselves and others both far away and in their local economy, for the environment, both in the long term and short term? Well if you do, you know everything you ever need to know about economics.
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nator Member (Idle past 2200 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
While I haven't yet seen the documentary film "The Corporation", I know it's basic premise, and it is germaine to this topic.
It is a look at the concept of corporations, and in particular views corporations as if they were people. IOW, what would the psychological profile of a typical corporation be if it was a person. Well, it would be a psychopath. Page not found | The Corporation
A LEGAL PERSON"
In the mid-1800s the corporation emerged as a legal person. Imbued with a personality of pure self-interest, the next 100 years saw the corporation’s rise to dominance. The corporation created unprecedented wealth. But at what cost? The remorseless rationale of externalitiesas Milton Friedman explains: the unintended consequences of a transaction between two parties on a thirdis responsible for countless cases of illness, death, poverty, pollution, exploitation and lies. THE PATHOLOGY OF COMMERCE: CASE HISTORIESTo more precisely assess the personality of the corporate person, a checklist is employed, using actual diagnostic criteria of the World Health Organization and the DSM-IV, the standard diagnostic tool of psychiatrists and psychologists. The operational principles of the corporation give it a highly anti-social personality: It is self-interested, inherently amoral, callous and deceitful; it breaches social and legal standards to get its way; it does not suffer from guilt, yet it can mimic the human qualities of empathy, caring and altruism. Four case studies, drawn from a universe of corporate activity, clearly demonstrate harm to workers, human health, animals and the biosphere. Concluding this point-by-point analysis, a disturbing diagnosis is delivered: the institutional embodiment of laissez-faire capitalism fully meets the diagnostic criteria of a psychopath.
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nator Member (Idle past 2200 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
bump
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nator Member (Idle past 2200 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
bump
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CK Member (Idle past 4158 days) Posts: 3221 Joined: |
sounds about right - most corporations are pretty dysfunctional in lots of ways.
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