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Author | Topic: Atheists have less reason to continue living? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Coragyps Member (Idle past 763 days) Posts: 5553 From: Snyder, Texas, USA Joined: |
There are a number of logical reasons why God might have loved those children, but still killed them.......
This I've gotta see!How large a number, Rusty? Name a reason why/how you would love 42 kids enough to have she-bears rip them limb from limb.
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RustyShackelford  Inactive Member |
Knight, are you referring to me?
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RustyShackelford  Inactive Member |
Coragyps, this is off-topic, so I'm not gonna continue this line of discussion apart from this one simple reply.......but the easiest explaination, which requires practically no imagination, is that the children died and went to heaven.
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roxrkool Member (Idle past 1017 days) Posts: 1497 From: Nevada Joined: |
So if sometime down the road Jesus was shown to have never existed, THEN you'd go around drugging and raping women?
It's rather interesting that the only reason some Christians have for their morality is because Christ/God has COMMANDED them... AND fear of reprisal from their god. Funny... nothing commands me to behave lovingly towards others and yet I do... What's my reason? Because I am inherently good and I was raised by people who taught me the value of life and how to respect it. It's hardly a secret.
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Loudmouth Inactive Member |
quote: Perhaps you are getting emotional responses because you are telling people that their view of the world is dishonest, immoral, without meaning, and illogical. That tends to raise a few hackles, in case you haven't noticed. According to you, atheists can not feel love, do everything in a selfish manner, and feel that life is not important. Of course, no atheist feels this way. Love can be illogical and still fit into an atheist worldview. Atheists do altruistic things without expecting a reward besides feeling better about helping his fellow man. An atheist puts great importance on his or her life, being that it is the only one they get. Let's contrast this with what you are claiming. You seem to claim that without biblical teachings and a relationship with God man is unable to do good. Man is also unable to act unselfishly, or have meaning in their life. I can tell you from experience that nothing you claim is true. Morality exists outside of the Bible and religion, happiness exists outside of church, and meaning can be found without appealing to the supernatural. What your posts boil down to is this: "I am superior and you poor atheists are nothing more than animals." A condescending attitude won't get you far around here.
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RustyShackelford  Inactive Member |
I think it's telling that most anti-atheists like yourself don't know enough about what their criticizing to know that there's no difference between agnosticism and atheism. Ridiculous........if they were the same thing, there weren't be two different terms for them with two differing definitions.
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RustyShackelford  Inactive Member |
By definition, agnosticism is no more atheism than it is theism......
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RustyShackelford  Inactive Member |
Hi Rusty, If you have a little extra time could you add a post to this thread and summarize some of the points you've made? If you don't have the time, I completely understand. This thread could benefit from a complete structured summary of your position on atheism and it's consequences for human society. It's simple, really......the logical end of atheism is complete lack of moral absolutes and non-hedonistic meaning for existance.
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NosyNed Member Posts: 9004 From: Canada Joined: |
If that isn't morality what is your definition of it?
From the Cambridge online dictionary:
quote: It seems to me that my behaviour is governed by a personal set of standards for behaviour that I have derived by the means I noted. Your complicated structure of individuals working together is based on a "set of standards". How is this not morality? It is time for you to offer up your definition of morality, Please. Now you were going to show the logic. So far all you've done is try to define away the issue. Please show the logical steps. This message has been edited by NosyNed, 11-01-2004 04:41 PM
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RustyShackelford  Inactive Member |
Okay, so now you've moved the goalposts, and said that there are instincts that appeal to all of us. Wuss. Feel free to insult me, guy. But have the stones to back it up afterward. Oooook, looks like Danny boy's not interested in serious debate anymore.......that's fine. I'll simply ignore you for the remainder of the time I spend on this topic.
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purpledawn Member (Idle past 3486 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined: |
This is some of what I posted in the other thread.
buzsaw writes:
The message of "hope" that Christians deliver concerns the afterlife and the person receiving the message has no way to check the veracity of the message. Athiests have no message of hope to preach. Atheists don't need to preach hope, but they can provide hope. What they can provide would be done in this world where they are held accountable. People know what they are getting, good or bad. Whose sacrifice is more meaningful? The man who dies to save another knowing he has another life to live or the one who knows his life is over?
buzsaw writes: Some, in their hopelessness end their own lives prematurely when life becomes tough or unpleasant. A 13yr old boy from a small Christian Church. Family is very devout and involved in the church. Mother is a nurse. His father died after battling cancer for over 5yrs. This young boy now resides in the cemetery next to my house. He took his own life after his father's death, because he wanted to join his father in heaven with Jesus. A devout Christian woman in her mid 40's and perfect health, who has two wonderful young boys and husband, prays at the end of each Bible study that she wants to be taken away now to the perfect life with Jesus. Fortunately she hasn't taken her own life yet. Over 20 yrs ago a Marine Sgt., who is also a devout Christian, kills his wife and children and then kills himself because God told him to. 5yrs ago a 60yr old woman starved herself to death because she had enough of her life in a wheel chair. She didn't want to be a burden on her family and wanted to join Jesus in heaven.
quote:I haven't noticed that Christians have anything different to live for than you do. A gentle answer turns away wrath, But a harsh word stirs up anger.
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NosyNed Member Posts: 9004 From: Canada Joined: |
It's simple, really......the logical end of atheism is complete lack of moral absolutes and non-hedonistic meaning for existance. Uh this is an assertion but you have yet to show the logical steps. You have asserted that without a God there can be no morality (set of standards; controls on behavior) unless there is fear of reprisal. Since a number of people have shown you that there are ways for there to be controls on behaviour without such fear of reprisal. A number of us have, frequently even, done things and not done things simply for the internal reward we give ourselves without any thought of reward or punishment. Since that is true it is not required that a lack of belief in God results in no such controls without external threat. So we have the real world circumstance that some people who don't believe in a God manage to behave in ways that some of us might agree is "better" than others who do believe in God. We also have seen no logical steps from you. At this time your conjecture doesn't seem to be on very firm ground.
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Dan Carroll Inactive Member |
that's fine. I'll simply ignore you for the remainder of the time I spend on this topic. And the overall effect will be different from your previous posts how, exactly?
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AdminNosy Administrator Posts: 4754 From: Vancouver, BC, Canada Joined: |
Oooook, looks like Danny boy's not interested in serious debate anymore.......that's fine. I'll simply ignore you for the remainder of the time I spend on this topic. There is, from both sides, a bit too much extraneous comment on others. Rusty you have been as, or more, guilty of it than anyone. There are guidelines governing your behaviour on this forum. In the long term you are required to adhere to them. You're new and haven't had a chance to learn. Besides being a bit more respectful of the others here there is a major problem you seem to be suffering from: an overuse of assertions and a noticable lack of back up. Back up might be statments of the kind:In the atheist world view there is no morality BECAUSE .... Or These published studies show that more immoral acts are committed by atheists than by age and social level matched individuals who are believers. Untill you can deliver such back up you might want to slow down on the assertions. It is also noted that there is a tendancy for the less well prepared to debate to be much more thin skinned and sensitive when the others get a bit less gentle. Danny boy, in a somewhat less than gentle way, simple asked you to support your statments. This message has been edited by AdminNosy, 11-01-2004 04:56 PM
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RustyShackelford  Inactive Member |
So if sometime down the road Jesus was shown to have never existed, THEN you'd go around drugging and raping women? If I could take any woman I wanted, and be certain of no reprisals, yes, I would. Don't lie to yourself.......because you would too. It's nature.
It's rather interesting that the only reason some Christians have for their morality is because Christ/God has COMMANDED them... AND fear of reprisal from their god. No, no, you misunderstand........I don't keep Christ's commandments for fear of reprisal, I keep Christ's commandments because I love Christ. Because Christ first loved me, and died for me.
Funny... nothing commands me to behave lovingly towards others and yet I do... What's my reason? Because I am inherently good and I was raised by people who taught me the value of life and how to respect it. It's hardly a secret. From an atheistic logical point of view, this is nothing but romantic drivel. You behave lovingly toward others so that they'll behave lovingly toward you. You are NOT inherantly good, because there's no such thing as absolute good, and survival of the fittest gaurantees that even if there WERE absolute good, no living creature would fit the requirements for being good........and life has no value. It's simply animate chemicals.
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