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Author
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Topic: How do we know God is "Good"?
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 74 of 305 (156342)
11-05-2004 4:37 PM
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Reply to: Message 66 by riVeRraT
11-05-2004 2:45 PM
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Re: The difference between Man's actions and those random ones.
Yes, I did label the Universe as good, and I thought I outlined why in Message 49? Is there something in that you don't understand or would like me to expand on?
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 66 by riVeRraT, posted 11-05-2004 2:45 PM | | riVeRraT has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 78 of 305 (156369)
11-05-2004 6:00 PM
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Reply to: Message 77 by riVeRraT
11-05-2004 5:44 PM
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Re: GOD is complete.
This would suggest an adundance of life throughout the universe. It would even suggest that life can happen anywhere, regardless of atmosphere, elements, etc. Personally, I believe we will find life to be pretty common. So far, everything we've been able to observe seems to follow the same set of rules, to behave in the same manner. I see no reason that life should behave diferently.
Or do you feel this is exclusive to earth? Nope. So far I have seen nothing very special about the Earth.
Plus, I guess then you think God is responsible for bad. Why else would he create a universe where random bad things can happen. I understand that bad doesn't mean evil, because it is just happening randomly. But it isn't that random if God created it. I've said before that IMHO you cannot have one without the other. You cannot have pleasure without pain, gain without loss, good without bad.
Plus that doesn't explain innocent babies dying in Africa. Unless you are saying "God created the world, and he didn't give anyone the keys"
Here, here's the universe, your on your own, good luck and good games. We'l,let's look at that. I don't want to get into another long disertation so let me ask you a question. Why are innocent babies dying in Africa?
It seems to me, you made your own way to explain the "bigger picture". a way that allows you to get along with the masses. It may seem that way to you but that is not how I see it. People ask about my beliefs FWTW, and so I post them.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 77 by riVeRraT, posted 11-05-2004 5:44 PM | | riVeRraT has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 82 by riVeRraT, posted 11-05-2004 6:17 PM | | jar has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 84 of 305 (156379)
11-05-2004 6:29 PM
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Reply to: Message 82 by riVeRraT
11-05-2004 6:17 PM
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Re: GOD is complete.
Another example, all Musslems in Africa probably do know about Christ, or at some point in there long history have choosen not to follow his ways of loving one another. What the hell does that have to do with anything?
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 82 by riVeRraT, posted 11-05-2004 6:17 PM | | riVeRraT has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 95 of 305 (156881)
11-06-2004 11:10 PM
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Reply to: Message 94 by crashfrog
11-06-2004 10:59 PM
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Except in heaven, right? Who knows?
There's no bad in heaven, right? Who knows?
Do we have free will in heaven? Who knows?
Does God have free will himself, without the capacity to do bad? GOD is complete.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 94 by crashfrog, posted 11-06-2004 10:59 PM | | crashfrog has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Actually, there is nothing that seems to show they would not have been aware of death. But they would have been totally amoral, unable to even contemplate good or evil. If you look, GOD's big fear during the incident was that they might eat of the tree of life and so live forever. They were not immoortal nor were any of the other critters. Genesis 3
22: And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: But I see the story differently than many. I do not see it as much of a curse as an awakening. Eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil is symbolic of a defining moment and charge. They disobeyed GOD and were punsihed and that seemed a bad thing. But they gained the knowledge of good and evil and that is IMHO the one thing that makes us different than all the other critters. But it is a story, an allegory.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 104 by sidelined, posted 11-08-2004 6:32 PM | | sidelined has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 108 of 305 (157457)
11-08-2004 10:03 PM
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Reply to: Message 107 by riVeRraT
11-08-2004 9:54 PM
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It seems to cover most if not all of the basis. It's an interesting story but that's about all.
Not bad for some morons from thousands of years ago, who "supposedly knew nothing about anything". Just about like all the other myths from other bronze age people from the same era.
We know so much more now, right? Absolutely.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 107 by riVeRraT, posted 11-08-2004 9:54 PM | | riVeRraT has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 111 of 305 (157492)
11-08-2004 11:21 PM
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Reply to: Message 110 by sidelined
11-08-2004 11:02 PM
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Well, I went through that pretty completely TTBOMK in this very thread. can I get you to check out the conversation between Gilgamesh and me starting at Message 9 through Message 49. I know that's asking alot but I do think for what is really a pretty complicated issue it's about as condensed as I can make it.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 110 by sidelined, posted 11-08-2004 11:02 PM | | sidelined has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 113 of 305 (157502)
11-08-2004 11:36 PM
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Reply to: Message 112 by sidelined
11-08-2004 11:28 PM
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Thank you sir
I think it was a very good exchange and Gilgamesh ask many very difficult questions and brought up major issues. I learn a lot discussing things with folk of the quality of you and Gilgamesh.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 112 by sidelined, posted 11-08-2004 11:28 PM | | sidelined has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 116 of 305 (157585)
11-09-2004 9:23 AM
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Reply to: Message 115 by riVeRraT
11-09-2004 6:39 AM
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Heading way OT
But here are the short answers.
But do you believe that when God first created us, that we lived in a perfect enviroment? No.
Or you don't believe in creation, but most everything else from the bible. No. I don't believe the Genesis creation tales at all or many of the other tales in the Bible such as the flood and exodus.
Did you ever think it possible that science is right about everything, except that God did create us, and everything else evolved? No.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 115 by riVeRraT, posted 11-09-2004 6:39 AM | | riVeRraT has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Are you sure?
I challenge any Christian, without making something up, to explain how slaughtering forty-two children is anything but the act of a psychopath. It's not all that different from many such tales and stories, not as bad as some of Grimm's Fairytales. It is a tale with a moral, don't be nasty. After all, what happened to Red Riding Hood's Granny?
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 120 by Gilgamesh, posted 11-09-2004 9:31 PM | | Gilgamesh has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 140 of 305 (158225)
11-10-2004 11:04 PM
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Reply to: Message 139 by Gilgamesh
11-10-2004 10:39 PM
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Re: Irrefutable mike strikes
That's an easy one Mike. You can handle that. Gilgamesh is slipping. Usually he asks pointed, difficult questions.  In fact, Gilgamesh can answer that one.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 139 by Gilgamesh, posted 11-10-2004 10:39 PM | | Gilgamesh has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 142 of 305 (158240)
11-11-2004 12:14 AM
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Reply to: Message 141 by Gilgamesh
11-11-2004 12:08 AM
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Re: Irrefutable mike strikes
Nah, this one is for you and Mike. Look for the common ground, build well and soundly. I admire both of you and have confidence that between the two, you'll create something bigger and better than either could do alone. Bridge, expand, reach back a helping hand. There is no chasm as wide as those we build, yet we can bridge even those.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 141 by Gilgamesh, posted 11-11-2004 12:08 AM | | Gilgamesh has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 144 of 305 (158245)
11-11-2004 12:33 AM
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Reply to: Message 143 by Gilgamesh
11-11-2004 12:29 AM
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Re: Irrefutable mike strikes
Build. Not Destruction but Construction. A wise man once said "This is the essence of it. Agreeance with that point is our common ground, between theist and atheist." We need to look for the common ground, build the bridges, tear down the walls. You guys can do that, I know.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 143 by Gilgamesh, posted 11-11-2004 12:29 AM | | Gilgamesh has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Re: Irrefutable mike strikes
Well, I think you and Gilgamesh can work this out. If I were you guys, I'd see if between the two you could arrive at some common understanding about several questions. Beginning with the tale of the bears and kids, - who were the authors, not by name, but rather what type people were they?
- what were the authors like?
- what was their culture?
- who was the audience for the story?
- was there some message being taught?
- if so, what was the message?
- from what is learned about this tale, can we make any generalizations about other such stories?
Questions are a great way to learn. If two people (or a group of people) can learn to honestly ask questions, to probe beyond the simple rhetoric, it's amazing what results they can achieve.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 165 by riVeRraT, posted 11-11-2004 8:46 PM | | jar has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Okay.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 158 by contracycle, posted 11-11-2004 10:04 AM | | contracycle has not replied |
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