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Author Topic:   The Definition and Description of a "Transitional"
JonF
Member (Idle past 199 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 57 of 110 (164868)
12-03-2004 10:03 AM
Reply to: Message 56 by Itachi Uchiha
12-03-2004 9:53 AM


Re: Trying to head back towards the topic...
If we were transicion from the apes then I would be able to do what apes do and do what humans do because im an updated version of the chimp
Ah, but the theory does not say (and the evidence does not indicate) that you are an updated version of the chimp. You and the chimp are different updated versions of a common ancestor. As such, we can do things that the common ancestor couldn't and the chimp can do things that the common ancestor couldn't.
And, of course, there's no reason why we should retain all the abilities of our distant ancestors if they're not evolutionarily advantageous. For example, blind cave fish (which have non-functional eyes) have obviously lost an ability that their distant ancestors had ... because they have no use for it and there's an advantage in their particular environment to not putting any energy into operating eyes. Eventually they'll probably lose the eyes altogether.
So don't assume that we can do all that our distant ancestors could, or that we can do all that our distant cousins can.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 56 by Itachi Uchiha, posted 12-03-2004 9:53 AM Itachi Uchiha has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 58 by NosyNed, posted 12-03-2004 10:06 AM JonF has not replied
 Message 63 by Itachi Uchiha, posted 12-04-2004 12:24 PM JonF has replied

  
JonF
Member (Idle past 199 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 67 of 110 (165146)
12-04-2004 1:12 PM
Reply to: Message 63 by Itachi Uchiha
12-04-2004 12:24 PM


Re: Trying to head back towards the topic...
The new version does the new updated things plus the old things.
Nope. The new version is just different. The differences can, and do, include new abilities or loss of old abilities.
My point is that if we are and updated version of the common ancestor (in this case the ape)why then we cant do what the ape easily does plus what we humans can do
Because we have lost those abilities.
What is disadvantageous about climbing trees the way apes do. Wouldnt that help us harvesting crops that grow in tall trees?
It's difficult to come up with a solid answer to that question. It appears that our ancestors lived in savannahs, and were cursorial hunters. They didn't need to climb trees ('cause there weren't a lot of trees, and there wasn't a lot of food in the trees that there were), but they did need to run; it's quite possible that the changes that made us better runners required losing the good climbing abilities, because good climbing ability was neither advantageous nor disadvantageous in the environment in which our ancestors found themselves. Or perhaps good climbing ability in a human-like frame is incompatible with good running ability.
Remember, we do not develop or lose abilities because it would be cool to develop or lose them; it happens because there is a difference in reproductive success in the current environment. Also remember that all changes work on already-existing structures, and that the process of evolution tends to find solutions that are good enough (seldom best) and similar to existing solutions to other problems. Perhaps good climbing ability would help to harvest fruits and suchlike, perhaps the ability to fly would help in geting away from predators. We don't have those abilities because they did not confer better reproductive success on the savannah (and, in the case of flying, it would probably be too far away from the existing structures to develop at all).
From this example you give me the idea that you believe that humans and fish have the common ancestor. If this is true, give some evidence or a link.
I do believe that humans and fish have a common ancestor, but that's not the subject of this discussion. (Of course, we share a very large percentage of our DNA with fish, and we can trace the morphological changes through the fossil record). The point of my example is that there are obvious cases when an ability of an ancestor has been lost in a descendant.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 63 by Itachi Uchiha, posted 12-04-2004 12:24 PM Itachi Uchiha has not replied

  
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