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Author | Topic: Who's Held To Higher Standards At EvC? | |||||||||||||||||||||||
NosyNed Member Posts: 9004 From: Canada Joined: |
Before you start making sarcastic statements it helps to know something about what you are talking about.
You demonstrate with each post that you have very, very little idea of about any of this. It shines a rather harsh light on you.
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Loudmouth Inactive Member |
quote: Nope, it means that the hypothesis is supported with the data at hand. No theory or hypothesis is ever considered "proved" or "absolutely true". Proof is for math and alcohol. Nothing makes a creationist stick out more in a scientific discussion than the word "proof".
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Maestro232 Inactive Member |
Great example loudmouth. Guess it must be true.
Guess the fact that there are so many similarities between the two can't possibly explain why our DNA is so similar.
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Loudmouth Inactive Member |
quote: So, in other words, there is no evidence for macroevolution because you refuse to look at it.
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Sylas Member (Idle past 5289 days) Posts: 766 From: Newcastle, Australia Joined: |
Maestro232 writes: So if the hypothesis and null hypothesis come out right, than dogonnit it must be true. Heck, science has never produced completely false and invalid hypotheses before with this perfect flawless method. Who am I to knock it. Not flawless; but considerably more careful than your caricature; which I believe you have recognized. So why object when people present a more accurate description of how experiments are done? Sarcasm does not become you. Creationists are always welcome to join the scientific debate. The point is that they do not, with some isolated exceptions. This is determined on a case by case basis; looking at experiments and arguments individually, in the same way that scientists criticize one another's work. Problem with creationist work is that it collapses under such examination almost immediately. This is really hard to handle. To engage this more substantively, you could try either presenting an argument of your own for some hypothesis and letting others comment; or else conversely by identifying a some conclusion held by folks here and try to learn about the basis or arguments for that conclusion; and then give a criticism. For example, you insisted above that "goo to you" evolution is without evidence. Do you actually know what arguments are evidence are cited and used, and could you give a criticism? The evidence for evolution from early fish to primitive reptiles, and mammals and ultimately humans is very strong indeed. The evidence for evolution from singled celled organisms to the early fish is strong. The evidence for development of singled celled organisms from non-living matter is almost entirely indirect; with little to go on for discriminating between hypotheses. The question is; do you even know what evidence is cited into order to judge how good or bad it might be? Cheers -- Sylas
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Maestro232 Inactive Member |
quote: More careful? yes. More correct? ...
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Maestro232 Inactive Member |
quote: No...but your conclusions will always favor your position. I could just as easily take those findings and say, "See, didn't God fearfully and wonderfully make this world?"
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CK Member (Idle past 4157 days) Posts: 3221 Joined: |
you've got nothing have you? just a series of one-liners?
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NosyNed Member Posts: 9004 From: Canada Joined: |
Seems so Charles and they aren't really funny either.
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Maestro232 Inactive Member |
gotta jet for the day. Ciao.
Hey...you already know my position. You find it laughable that I could be so ignorant and challenge your understanding of science. I know. But...what can I say...there is a truth and a fiction. We will believe what we will believe.
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Loudmouth Inactive Member |
quote: Then go to the thread and show me what other scientific conclusions can be drawn from the data I presented. If there is data that falsifies my conclusion you can post that as well. Also, you claimed that interpretations are subjective. Please go to my ERV thread and show me how my conclusions are subjective.
quote: And I could just as easily say, "See, didn't the Invisible Pink Unicorn fearfully and wonderfully make this world?" However, both statements have no objective data to support them, unlike the conclusion that chimps and humans share a common ancestor. This message has been edited by Loudmouth, 12-17-2004 05:15 PM
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Maestro232 Inactive Member |
...and...
you will believe what you do because you have confidence in your and other people's intelligence. I will believe what I do because of my confidence in man's foolishness, of which I am a fine example. Or, maybe you are less foolish than me and you have it all right.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
The webpage you linked to lists theoretical work on accelerated radioactive decay and mentions no experiments. Yet you cited it specifically on the basis that it DID refer to an experiment.
If you have to laugh at us - what are we to say of you ? You can't even manage to accurately represent a creationist webpage that you tried to use as a reference.
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Loudmouth Inactive Member |
quote: No, I have no confidence in other poeple's intelligence, that's why I rely on science to answer questions about the natural world. This is why all of science is based on objective data, so the data can be checked by anyone at anytime. I accept evolution as the best explanation for biodiversity because it is based on repeatable evidence unlike creationism which is based on the subjective assertion that the Bible is inerrant.
quote: Science is the ultimate handicapper. It doesn't matter how foolish either of us is. If data falsifies a theory, then the theory must be dropped. Period. If there is no data supporting your theory or hypothesis, it must be dropped. Period. The only foolishness involved is arrogance, believing that you are correct in the face of falsifying evidence. This is why I want you to read my thread on ERV's. It is the very evidence that leads to the conclusion that macroevolution has occured, the evidence that you claim doesn't exist. If I am being subjective, cheating, or ignoring falsifying evidence it is a perfect chance for you to show the world how stupid evolution really is. Will you step up to the challenge, or will you sit on the sidelines and hurl insults? The normal creationist reaction to this type of challenge is to cry "unfair, unfair". Then, in another thread, they will keep proclaiming that there is no evidence for evolution. This is the type of behavior that we absolutely abhor. This is the exact same type of attitude that has sent many a creationist to Boot Camp or forced Admin's to cancel their accounts. It is the unwillingness to face the evidence, or even acknowledge that evidence does exist after it is shown, that gets creationists in trouble around here. Is this standard unfair? Not in the least.
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1496 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
Plenty of creationists have done scientific experiments using scientific methods. Perhaps. And where they have, those findings can be part of science. But I can't think of a single modern example of what you refer to.
The whole argument is over how we interpret data. You say that as though all interpretations are equally valid.
You cannot just accuse a creationist of being a non-scientist. If a creationist is trying to offer dogma and assertion as science, then I can and will make that accusation.
I know plenty who write valid technical papers with scientifically proven results. On the subject of creationism? I find that rather hard to believe. Perhaps we might explore specific examples in another thread.
What we take issue with is that you say your results lend support to your evolutionary theory. And to the degree that your issues are grounded in scientific methodology, they are valid. But I've been studying this issue for almost 4 years, and I've yet to encounter a single scientifically valid criticism of evolution, or any scientifically valid evidence for creation, or even a scientifically valid hypothesis from creationism itself.
We do not even argue that we should be expected to hold to them. You may not, but a number of your peers do, and are, even in this thread. That's a common creationist objection; even if you don't agree with it it's quite disingenuous to pretend that the objection is never made. It is, and often.
. You are calling us non-scientists because of our subjective interpretation of data though. I'm calling you non-scientists because you don't interpret your data through the scientific method. It really is just that simple.
Their is nothing that makes macro-evolutionary theory scientifically provable.. Except, of course, for the evidence for it, which is vast and leigion.
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