Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9164 total)
4 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,912 Year: 4,169/9,624 Month: 1,040/974 Week: 367/286 Day: 10/13 Hour: 0/1


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Discrimination
Shaz
Inactive Member


Message 17 of 90 (173148)
01-02-2005 7:14 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Hangdawg13
01-02-2005 1:37 PM


Hangdawg:
You make some interesting points here. Discrimination is indeed a massive topic, and as you point out it affects all areas of life. Often there is much confusion though, with regards to discrimination and prejudice.
quote:
discrimination definition — discrimination is defined as treating one person unfairly prejudice over another according to factors unrelated to their ability or potential, such as age, disability, sex, or national origin (italics mine)
quote:
Prejudice - To decide beforehand; to lean in favor of one side of a cause for some reason or other than its justice.
Prejudice is a component of anti-discrimination legislation. Which is also merely seperating, belief from logic and/or common sense. It is for that reason, I endorse most Government induced anti-discrimination, legislation. For the most part such legislation, is actually in relation to acts of prejudice which stem from discrimination. Until we have a world where by all men are treated equal by their counterparts such legislation will be necessary for the protection of others.
In relation to this example:
1)I don't think it is immoral for a small business owner to reject a new employee whom he will be working with because that employee has a conflicting personality or conflicting morals. 2)Though I think it is immoral for an employer to fail to hire an employee simply because that employee is black, 3)I think it is also wrong for the government to force that employer to hire that employee or anyone else simply because he is black.
With anti-discrimination legislation here, the first point you make, is not discrimination as it stands alone. The other points actually pertain to acts of prejudice, and are subsequently regarded as being discriminatory.
In regards to this:
...nor should we have our kids force-fed liberal sexual doctrines in school.
There are avenues of appeal with the UN, if this subject is being mandatory imposed by Government legislation. However such appeals can only be brought forth by those it personally affects. In accordance with legal guardianship though, it might be warranted to investigate if this issue could be investigated by the UN.
For example with homosexuality. Here in Australia, some years ago, there was no national rule against homosexuality being an illegal act. Each state adopted its own legislative mandate, all being similar, with the exception of Tasmania. Tasmania's legislation at the time, was that homosexuality between two consenting adults, in the privacy of their own home was illegal. Subsequently, a complaint was lodged with the United Nations, in regards to Tasmania's legislation. Upon investigation, the UN made ruling that Tasmania had to change their legislation. There is now National ruling in regards to consenting adults, having the freedom to determine and act upon their own sexuality, within the privacy of their own homes.
My personal opinion in regards to discrimination, is one I have professed elsewhere on the site. Minimise harm. Therefore any legislation that is introduced which has that as its intent, whilst maintaining individual rights has my endorsement. I do not see this as prejudicing against someone because of who they are, though it may discrimate against an act, i.e. murder. I also believe that a failure to do so, would result in anarchy. Anarchy is not something that I believe, God ever proposed for us.
Shaz
This message has been edited by Shaz, 03 January 2005 10:29 AM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Hangdawg13, posted 01-02-2005 1:37 PM Hangdawg13 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by Hangdawg13, posted 01-02-2005 9:10 PM Shaz has replied

  
Shaz
Inactive Member


Message 31 of 90 (173204)
01-02-2005 11:19 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by Hangdawg13
01-02-2005 9:10 PM


Hangdawg:
Glad you like the avator, I like yours too, reminds me of someone I once knew.
The day the UN begins to impose it's rule over American private affairs, I'll be looking for the Anti-Christ...
The UN does not impose rule, over private affairs. It passes rule over legislation/factions, that impose restrictions with bias, or discrimination. Of course having said that, man can still choose to go against any legislation, and pay the penalty for such. So there is no absolute guarantee with anything.
I believe in the interests of freedom and as a matter of principle that the government should be completely blind to race and therefore have no laws that even mention race even if anti-discrimination laws may make it easier for minorities to get jobs.
You may believe in freedom as do I, but does the man next to you, or across the road from you, or down the street? So many people have blinker vision, and what if he then imposed his position on your family, or yourself? What if he had 20 mates who wanted to help him do that, and you and your family had no supports? Police? Controlled by legislation. As I said before, legislation is a means of preventing active prejudice. Without such, we may possibly still have rampant slavery, and capitalism. Which is why the same applies with quotas, quotas are a means of introducing some equilibrium. If one does not like the quota's in relation to their business, they can certainly refuse to comply. Of course this then will create consequence, and a possible lengthy legal battle. As I said before there is no guarantee that the basic premise works, or cannot be improved upon. History demonstrates that abuse of minority groups has been a factor across all centuries, legislative process is one mechanism aimed at preventing some of that.
Consider this scenario, if there was no anti-discrimination legislation.
An American Negro, Christian family, with 5 children. Mother and father both unemployed, and a sick child, have just moved to the city looking for work. He applies for a position, and is knocked back merely because he is Christian, she applies for a position and is knocked back because she is female. Then several rental agencies refuse to rent them a house, because they are American Negro. Of course then there is the trip to the hospital, where a white doctor who is a neo-nazi, treats them with disdain and is barely civil when checking the child, after having made them wait for several hours.
Okay this is an absolute extreme. I would like your opinion though whether, legislation is not a good thing in such a case?
I apologise if I sound condescending or patronising, it is not my intent, I just like to offer a bigger picture.
Shaz

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by Hangdawg13, posted 01-02-2005 9:10 PM Hangdawg13 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by Tal, posted 01-03-2005 1:41 AM Shaz has replied
 Message 52 by Hangdawg13, posted 01-03-2005 8:07 PM Shaz has replied

  
Shaz
Inactive Member


Message 33 of 90 (173275)
01-03-2005 3:37 AM
Reply to: Message 32 by Tal
01-03-2005 1:41 AM


Tal:
Based on the example you gave, which is actually hearsay, then yes one could speculate that rule was imposed. However one would need to take into account what the UN guards mandate was, also whether if contravened anything else, and whether it was a discretionary decision.
I know that sounds lame, but that is the way it is, with regards to legislation. Having said that however, of a moral nature, I personally would have been outraged, at the UN Guards for not allowing intervention. I also would have then followed up on investigating the mandate for that decision.
Shaz
edit- spelling mistake
This message has been edited by Shaz, 03 January 2005 18:38 AM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by Tal, posted 01-03-2005 1:41 AM Tal has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 34 by Tal, posted 01-03-2005 3:49 AM Shaz has not replied

  
Shaz
Inactive Member


Message 38 of 90 (173295)
01-03-2005 4:37 AM
Reply to: Message 35 by Rrhain
01-03-2005 4:06 AM


Rrhain:
Thanks for jumping on to clear that up, I must say I was a bit confused and surprised, but have no immediate information on hand to clarify the point Tal was making.
The UN can never tell any country anywhere what to do. They can draft treaties, but the member nations need to sign them in order for the country to become subject to them.
Is it not correct that they can then pose recommendations to the National body, and then if non compliant impose sanctions?
Shaz
I actually found what I needed. For anyone that is interested, this is the 'United Nations Charter' & Information on 'The office of the UN High Commissioner on Human Rights':
quote:
  • Charter - http://www.hrweb.org/legal/unchartr.html
  • Office UN, High Com. Human Rights -http://www.unhchr.ch/html/menu6/2/OHCHR.pdf
  • This message has been edited by Shaz, 03 January 2005 20:00 AM

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 35 by Rrhain, posted 01-03-2005 4:06 AM Rrhain has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 41 by Rrhain, posted 01-03-2005 4:47 AM Shaz has replied

      
    Shaz
    Inactive Member


    Message 43 of 90 (173308)
    01-03-2005 5:06 AM
    Reply to: Message 41 by Rrhain
    01-03-2005 4:47 AM


    Yes Rrhian, your right.
    I have just read the charter again. Only those signed to the treaty have the vote, exception being those countries, whatever the current situation applies to at the time, and those who havent paid their fees. Typical committee meeting really.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 41 by Rrhain, posted 01-03-2005 4:47 AM Rrhain has not replied

      
    Shaz
    Inactive Member


    Message 54 of 90 (173631)
    01-04-2005 12:24 AM
    Reply to: Message 52 by Hangdawg13
    01-03-2005 8:07 PM


    Thanks for your reply Hangdawg.
    Hangdawg13 writes:
    This sounds more like a wellfare case to me than affirmative action.
    How exactly is affirmative action, not a component of welfare? Indeed the example I gave is a welfare issue, and rights are a welfare/social science issue. The links below will show just one connection with welfare/social work and instigating reform and legislative change.
    http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/USAnaacp.htm
    http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/USASovington.htmI
    http://www.americanpresident.org/history/williamhowardtaft/...
    {Shortened display form of URL, to restore page width to normal - Adminnemooseus}
    Hangdawg13 writes:
    I am all about allowing the government to give them a generous amount of money, so long as they use it to learn or improve their skills so as to be increasingly competitive in the work force.
    By giving money are you referring to social security? Did you ever consider that people actually may not want hand outs, that they would like to have pride in knowing they are earning their own way? Again apply your concept alone, to the handouts and using that to learn. How could one do that, if they have no food in their belly, no light to do their homework by, or even no school within walking distance that will take them?
    Hangdawg13 writes:
    single decent family would run up against THAT much prejudice in an American city today, and if they did, there are many other diverse less prejudiced cities around.
    I have a social science background, so I wont comment on your statement other than to ask:
  • Are you saying that prejudice only comes to families that are not 'decent'?
  • Are you also stating that a family can always move if they don't like it?
    Shaz
    This message has been edited by Adminnemooseus, 01-04-2005 16:26 AM

  • This message is a reply to:
     Message 52 by Hangdawg13, posted 01-03-2005 8:07 PM Hangdawg13 has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 56 by Hangdawg13, posted 01-04-2005 3:05 PM Shaz has not replied

      
    Newer Topic | Older Topic
    Jump to:


    Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

    ™ Version 4.2
    Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024