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Author Topic:   Discrimination
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 6 of 90 (173088)
01-02-2005 3:26 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Hangdawg13
01-02-2005 1:37 PM


I think you may misunderstand my position.
I do not think all discrimination is wrong. In fact, I think that it is a technique that should be taught very early in the learning cycle.
In another thread Jar preaches that all forms of discrimination are B.S., anti-Christ, and anti-loving-one's-neighbor
I thought it was pretty clear I was speaking of particular acts, but perhaps I was mistaken. Let me try to make myself quite clear.
I believe that DOMA, anti-gay marriage legislation and depriving people of basic rights is anti-christian, discriminatory and oppressive. As a Christian I believe we MUST stand up and oppose such actions.
Though Jar believes homosexuality to be perfectly moral and harmless, I do not.
My position is that such a decision is simply not relevant. In fact, it is those type things we might personally disagree with that we must work hardest to protect.
It is easy to support speech we agree with. The hard thing (although also the right thing) is to support speech we disagree with.
If homosexuality is morally wrong, then that can be resolved as it should be, between GOD and the individual. It is not our place to legislate morality.
The issue with DOMA and related anti-gay legislation is that such laws deprive individuals of basic rights.
In a same-sex relationship where one of the people has access to health insurance, they are often not eligible for family policy since their marriage is not recognized.
That is also true in providing protection in family violence situations.
It is also true when considering inheirtance.
As Christians, whether or not we personally approve of same-sex relationships, we must oppose discrimination against them.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Hangdawg13, posted 01-02-2005 1:37 PM Hangdawg13 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by Hangdawg13, posted 01-02-2005 4:46 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 13 of 90 (173127)
01-02-2005 5:46 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by Hangdawg13
01-02-2005 4:46 PM


Perhaps... but you sure weren't pulling any punches in that other thread!
Damn right. It's time to stop tolerating bigotry.
That is true; however, there can come a point when 'free speech' may be imposed on others as I have tried to bring up with the school curricula thing. I don't care if someone wants to talk about the glory of gayness, but I don't want that person to tell my kids about it in school and be protected by the government under the 'freedom of speech'.
You against teaching tolerance?
The ACLU has no right to take away religious symbols and words from a school where almost everybody wants them there.
What?
The ACLU is one of the greatest supporters of Christianity. You've been listening to some of the liars like Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell again (even though he has personally benefitted fron th ACLU's actions).
Following Threat of ACLU of Virginia Lawsuit, Officials to Agree Not to Ban Baptisms in Public Parks (06/03/2004)
After ACLU Intervention on Behalf of Christian Valedictorian, Michigan High School Agrees to Stop Censoring Religious Yearbook Entries (05/11/2004)
Following ACLU Lawsuit, Town Officials Settle Lawsuit Over Denial of Zoning Permit to Pittsburgh Area Church (04/19/2004)
Pennsylvania Superior Court Rules: Amish Can Stick With Reflective Tape on Buggies (10/21/2003)
In Win for Rev. Falwell (and the ACLU), Judge Rules VA Must Allow Churches to Incorporate (04/17/2002)
Nevada Officials Drop Plan to License and Fingerprint Clergy (12/29/2000)
ACLU Hails Plans to Sign Religious Freedom Bill into Law (09/22/2000)

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Hangdawg13, posted 01-02-2005 4:46 PM Hangdawg13 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by Hangdawg13, posted 01-02-2005 7:20 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 19 of 90 (173156)
01-02-2005 7:47 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by Hangdawg13
01-02-2005 7:20 PM


How can you be so militantly sure that I am wrong in my belief that homosexuality is immoral?
I never said your belief is wrong. I said it doesn't matter if it is immpral or not. You believe it's immoral? Fine, don't have homosexual relations. But don't oppress others because of your moral beliefs.
On sex-ed you give two examples. The first exerts a moral perspective, a judgement. As a Christian I find the first is totally unacceptable in a public school setting.
All I know is I read and hear lots of news stories (not on Pat's site) about how the ACLU is suing this person or that organization to get religious symbols or speech removed. I have only heard one report of them protecting religious freedom.
Then you are getting a very filtered viewpoint. That is typical of the lying tactics of the Christian Religious Right, the Literalists and Fundamentalists.
I gave you more than one direct link to actions of the ACLU in support of religion. Now you have the ability to see for yourself what the ACLU does. The next step I'd suggest is to join.
A lot of the opposition to the ACLU from the Christian Right is based on the fact they have creadted a front organization designed to project their bigotted philosophy while stealing even more money from the gullible. It's called the ACLJ and is a creation of Pat Robertson.
Even if they were nazis I don't think they nor anyone else deserves your your militant hatred.
There is no hatred. There is a recognition that people such as Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, Jim Bakker, Jimmy Swaggart, Gene Scott, Oral Roberts and Pat Tillson are evil and their bigotted policies need to be opposed by anyone who tries to follow Jesus' teachings.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by Hangdawg13, posted 01-02-2005 7:20 PM Hangdawg13 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by Hangdawg13, posted 01-02-2005 8:57 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 23 of 90 (173177)
01-02-2005 9:12 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by Hangdawg13
01-02-2005 8:57 PM


Not at all.
That is why we have a limited democratic republic. Fortunately we have restrictions on the tyranny of the majority.
If I do not hire a black man because he's a black man, then I am oppressing him. That is wrong.
Correct.
If the government forces me to hire him because he is black, that is wrong too.
The government does not force you to hire him. So your example is moot.
If the majority wishes that their kids be given a Christian moral perspective in sex-ed class, and the government says, "You may teach no morals nor may you teach anything of religious nature, nor may any teacher or any student say anything else that might possibly be construed as offensive to another family," then it is the majority that is having freedoms taken away and being oppressed.
Nope. Wrong again. It is the minority being protected from the majority. Big difference. The majority does not need protection by definition. It is only minorities that need protection.
And therefore in my free republic utopia, you could either accept it or you could attempt to persuade the majority to your opinion or you could find a nice liberal episcopal town to live in where you are in the majority, but you could not get the government through lawsuits or funds to put pressure on the community to give up their right to have the majority's desired curriculum taught.
Logic worthy of the Taliban.
Again, as a Christian, it is our duty to stand up for the minority.
Dawg, if you have a moral conviction that is fine. But the idea of imposing it on others is anti-Christ. If Christ's death teaches nothing else it should be that persuasion is the way, not imposition.
It would have been easy for GOD to impose Christianity on everyone in the world. Is there some reason he did not?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by Hangdawg13, posted 01-02-2005 8:57 PM Hangdawg13 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by Hangdawg13, posted 01-02-2005 9:55 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 29 of 90 (173193)
01-02-2005 10:24 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by Hangdawg13
01-02-2005 9:55 PM


Now I must be a student again. Where does this idea of minority rights come from in the constitution?
Minority rights are explicit in the Consitution. It is in the right of free speech. It is in the limits on establishing a religion. It is in each of the Amendments.
It is in the design of our legislature. The difference in how Senators and Representatives are elected is based on protection of the minority from tyranny of the majority. It is in the Judiciary, it is why Federal Judges are elected for life. It is is the Electorial Congress and the restriction prohibiting the Presidential and Vice-Presidential candidate from the same state.
Oh, you know what I'm talking about. It is accomplished through quotas and idiotic judges who award billions of dollars to people who got their feathers ruffled. My dad is always having to go to "diversity training" where everyone learns how to not piss off everyone else so that a lawsuit is not filed. If I put a little check in the box next to "African American" I am more likely to get accepted to college and get more money for it too.
That may be what you thought you were talking about but that is not what you said.
Now perhaps you can show us where the government has ever placed hiring quotas on private business?
How can you say that the government's taking away of the majority's freedoms so that the minority can get their way is protection?
Please show how the government is taking away the majorities freedoms? the majority has no freedom to oppress minorities.
Unless the government has become tyrranical.
What does that have to do with anything?
Or perhaps late 18th century America.
Nonsense. We have evidence from then. It's called the Constitution.
It is our duty to stand up for their rights of free speech, freedom of religion, etc... not our duty to abolish the majority's decision in favor of the minority's.
It is our duty to stand up when the majority are trying to oppress the minority.
If you tell me my kids will not be taught that promiscuity is bad because you disagree, you are imposing your morals on me, which is fine if you are not the government and are the majority.
Whether or not an act is promiscuous or immoral is a personal moral judgement. You do not have the right to impose your morality on the minority even if you are the majority. Teach that in your house to your kids.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by Hangdawg13, posted 01-02-2005 9:55 PM Hangdawg13 has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 85 of 90 (175222)
01-09-2005 12:47 PM
Reply to: Message 84 by crashfrog
01-09-2005 12:04 PM


What does an Islamic Male look like?
What country is he from?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 84 by crashfrog, posted 01-09-2005 12:04 PM crashfrog has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 86 by Tal, posted 01-10-2005 2:20 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 89 of 90 (175419)
01-10-2005 6:52 AM
Reply to: Message 86 by Tal
01-10-2005 2:20 AM


Tal writes:
They are red skinned pigmys from a pacific island.
Common sense test = failed.
Actually, the odds that they are from a Pacific Island are very high. Or they might be a US citizen, or Canadian, or Nigerian, or German, or British, or Argentinan or Chinese or Russian. They could be French or Spanish or Italian. They could be Israeli or Egyptian or Mexican.
So once again, what does an Islamic Male look like?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 86 by Tal, posted 01-10-2005 2:20 AM Tal has not replied

  
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