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Author Topic:   Discrimination
FliesOnly
Member (Idle past 4175 days)
Posts: 797
From: Michigan
Joined: 12-01-2003


Message 60 of 90 (173814)
01-04-2005 4:28 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by Hangdawg13
01-02-2005 4:46 PM


Hello Hangdawg13
hangdawg13 writes:
The minority should either quit or cope, but not dilute this smallest kernal of government by eliminating consensus and demanding complete compromise.
Why did our fore-fathers write the Constitution? What was their justification...their raison d'tre for writing such a document? It's quite simple, but very important. It was to protect the minority from the tyranny of the majority. That's it. To prevent one "group" from deciding for everybody what is right and wrong in regards to ones own personal beliefs. That's why they felt it important to write our Constitution, and why it includes things like the 14th amendment.
It’s really quite simple. You may have what you feel are justifiable reasons to want to ban gay marriage and theses reasons may be deeply rooted in your religious convictions. Fine. Additionally, you can (and I suppose "should") do whatever your religious beliefs tell you to do to "help" these people out. That is, you can do whatever you want...except use you religious views to change our Constitution.
We are a nation founded on the principle that the majority absolutely do not have the right to impart their wants and views on those that are in the minority. Period. If you really believe in our Constitution, then even though you do not accept gay marriage, you still have the responsibility to say "no" to a change in our Constitution that is, flat out, nothing but discrimination.
To get around the religious objections, I have heard a few people make comment about how gays "only want to get married so they can get the tax breaks". To those people I ask: Do you have some data to back up such a ridiculous claim? Also, by that argument, there are probably millions of heterosexuals that should not have been allowed to marry either. What about heterosexuals that were not married in any sort of religious setting? What about heterosexuals that are married but do not plan on having any children? Should they be banned too?
Do you understand? Do you agree? You have to agree. Remember, I'm not saying you have to agree with homosexuality. You can, for whatever reason(s) you want, believe that two people of the same sex should not marry. That's all fine and dandy. But in this Country, you do not now, nor should you ever have the right to ban gay marriage by using the very document that protects such behavior. Of course, if you want to live in a Country in which moral behaviors are dictated to you by one religious sect, then fine, move to Iraq, or Iran, or Saudi Arabia. I, for one, like the idea of keeping religion out of our Political policies and agendas.
hangdawg13 writes:
If gay people want their adopted kids to be taught the glory of gayness in school then let them form a community where they can get enough votes to insert this teaching into the curricula and I will gladly support their right to free speech.
Personally, I don't want either of these ideas taught in my public schools. I would much rather see a real, comprehensive curricula dealing with sex education (not the nonsensical crappola put out by the Bush administration) and tolerance.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Hangdawg13, posted 01-02-2005 4:46 PM Hangdawg13 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 64 by Hangdawg13, posted 01-04-2005 11:59 PM FliesOnly has replied

  
FliesOnly
Member (Idle past 4175 days)
Posts: 797
From: Michigan
Joined: 12-01-2003


Message 73 of 90 (174027)
01-05-2005 9:11 AM
Reply to: Message 64 by Hangdawg13
01-04-2005 11:59 PM


Hello Again
hangdawg13 writes:
I am not in favor of Congress banning Gay Marriage as this would go against the separation of church and state clause.
I don't want to change the constitution. I just want people to not be forced to become secular as soon as they step into the public.
I don't really think the national government should have anything to do with marriage for anyone.
Ok, so you do not think the Feds should get involved, but why is it any better if it's done locally? Is it somehow less discriminatory if State or local governments ban gay marriage?
hangdawg13 writes:
And I think YOU should have the say in your community or state to support the curricula of your choice, but I do NOT think washington beaurocrats or any other beaurocrats should be the ones to determine what your kids are taught.
Nope. Facts are what should be taught, regardless of how parents feel about them.
hangdawg13 writes:
Nor do I think judges should have the say because one or two students are offended by something.
You cannot be serious. What if 20-30 students are offended...100-200? Again, remember why we have a Constitution.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 64 by Hangdawg13, posted 01-04-2005 11:59 PM Hangdawg13 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 74 by Tal, posted 01-05-2005 9:28 AM FliesOnly has replied

  
FliesOnly
Member (Idle past 4175 days)
Posts: 797
From: Michigan
Joined: 12-01-2003


Message 76 of 90 (174047)
01-05-2005 9:52 AM
Reply to: Message 74 by Tal
01-05-2005 9:28 AM


Hi Tal
Tal writes:
In order for a ban to happen gay marriage would have to have been legal in the first place.
Here we go with some ridiculous word games. Ok, I’ll play along. First off, your sentence claims that gay marriage is currently illegal. Is it? If so, why is it illegal? Would it be because some level of Government passed a law making it illegal? Is that not discrimination and therefore not allowed by our Constitution. Would it not then be the case the homophobic right-wing republicans therefore feel the need to change our Constitution to ban such an act (gay marriage)?
Or am I totally misreading you here and you actually all for gay marriage? Are you trying to say that gay marriage is not illegal and it never should be?
To be honest, I do not know that status of gay marriages in most of the States. I do know that my State (Michigan) recently showed how homophobic we are by banning not only gay marriage but civil unions as well. And I also recall that in the time period leading up to the vote, it was repeatedly said that this ban would NOT be used to deny health care to gay couples. But guess what

This message is a reply to:
 Message 74 by Tal, posted 01-05-2005 9:28 AM Tal has not replied

  
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