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Does it take faith to accept evolution as truth?

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Author Topic:   Does it take faith to accept evolution as truth?
edge
Member (Idle past 1737 days)
Posts: 4696
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002

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Message 59 of 161 (176787)
01-13-2005 10:33 PM 		Reply to: Message 52 by commike37
01-13-2005 10:01 PM

Re: But where should the comparison take place?
We can not justify evolution by saying that it is the best theory. If there were two forms of government, dictatorships and anarchies, which one would be the best? Regardless of which one you choose, they're both horrible.
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But wouldn't one of the two be better by someones judgement? This is a false analogy anyway. There are more than two types of governmetn and we know it. On the other hand, there is only one scientifically viable theory regarding origins.
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This demonstrates the problem of accepting evolution because it is the best theory. So we must instead compare evolution to the objective truth in our society. Once that is established, then we can work from there to further analyze the role of faith in evolution.
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Ah then you are talking 'evidence.' Very good. Please supply us with your evidence.
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On a general note, I have a sense that some of you are waiting for me to lay out the tenets of ID so that you can rip them apart. But that is not why I came here. I came here to diagnose what role faith plays in evolution. If you keep that in mind, perhaps my arguments would be more comprehensible.
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By your definition of faith, the belief that my truck will start up tomorrow is based solely on faith. You, along with many other YECs, have completely corrupted the definition of 'faith'.
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edge
Member (Idle past 1737 days)
Posts: 4696
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002

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Message 60 of 161 (176788)
01-13-2005 10:34 PM 		Reply to: Message 58 by commike37
01-13-2005 10:31 PM

Re: The Great Question
Do we accept evolution by comparing it to objective truth, or by comparing it to other theories? ...
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Yes.
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edge
Member (Idle past 1737 days)
Posts: 4696
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002

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Message 61 of 161 (176789)
01-13-2005 10:38 PM 		Reply to: Message 50 by commike37
01-13-2005 9:51 PM

I'm saying that ID, as well as any other theory that is developed, can in no way start on the same ground as evolution in the scientific procees.
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So, how did evolution get started? Seems like YEC had centuries of a head start. What the heck did they do with it?
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Therefore, this creates a monopoly of sorts for evolution (and if you want to why a monopoly is bad, look to Microsoft; that's all the evidence you'll ever need).
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This only shows you how bad the alternative(s) to evolution is(are) ...
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edge
Member (Idle past 1737 days)
Posts: 4696
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002

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Message 104 of 161 (177154)
01-14-2005 9:54 PM 		Reply to: Message 95 by commike37
01-14-2005 7:52 PM

Re: How much faith?
I'm not trying to focus on evidence as much, which is why I'm not going to go for high quality stuff. I said those five bits were the most troublesome, meaning they may not necessarily disprove evolution, but they generate most of the problems for evolution.
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Funny how the world of science has not noted this fact. Can you please show us where any of these items has generated an article in a mainstream journal? You really need to get out more often.
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edge
Member (Idle past 1737 days)
Posts: 4696
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002

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Message 112 of 161 (177539)
01-16-2005 11:31 AM 		Reply to: Message 109 by commike37
01-15-2005 11:08 PM

Re: How much faith?
The answer to how much faith you have in evolution is how much faith you have in man. That would differ in some people (especially optomists vs pessimists).
Then you are saying that evolutionists are optimists and YECs are pessimists? That does fit with a few other things I've noticed.
No evidence? None? Zero? Didn't your English teach tell you to never use absolutes? I think someone's showing a pretty obvious bias.
"...never use absolutes..." Very good.
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Do you realize how funny this sounds coming from a YEC? The "were-you-there-to-see-it" crowd? The same folks who want the ultimate truth from every scientific theory? The ones who complain that "science changes"? Face it, absolutism is in your genes.
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Actually, it is a true statement that there is no documentable evidence that uniquely supports YEC.
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edge
Member (Idle past 1737 days)
Posts: 4696
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002

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Message 116 of 161 (177680)
01-16-2005 9:44 PM 		Reply to: Message 113 by commike37
01-16-2005 6:02 PM

Re: How much faith?
Where did I say that evolutionists are optimists and YECs are pessimists?
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You didn't I have to guess what you are thinking. You will notice that my statement is in the form of a question. I reiterate that question.
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quote:
Nice job of using stereotypes.
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Sometimes they are useful. It just struck me as funny, a YEC telling us not to use absolutes...
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e: Actually, it is a true statement that there is no documentable evidence that uniquely supports YEC.
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Commike: Actually, you are using deductive reasoning here, so you can't quite conclusively prove that statement.
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I don't intend to. I am satisfied with the veracity of the statement based on many years of study and work. Your standards of proof are not attainable, even by your own explanation.
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edge
Member (Idle past 1737 days)
Posts: 4696
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002

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Message 117 of 161 (177683)
01-16-2005 9:46 PM 		Reply to: Message 115 by commike37
01-16-2005 6:21 PM

Re: How much faith?
Well if the Bible is open to many different interpretations, then so is processes in nature. Your logic here is self-destructive and contradictory.
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So, what are some of those explanations?
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edge
Member (Idle past 1737 days)
Posts: 4696
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002

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Message 133 of 161 (178377)
01-18-2005 10:38 PM 		Reply to: Message 118 by commike37
01-17-2005 7:45 PM

Re: How much faith?
Logically if other interpretations of processes in nature are false, then other interpretations of the Bible are false. Regardless, though, the aforementioned statement is not based off of my logic, but yours.
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This makes no sense, despite your claim to logic. Are you saying that because some interpretations are wrong that all interpretations are wrong?
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That point aside, however, in religion people ultimately put their faith in God. In evolution people ultimately put their faith in man.
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I also put my faith (loose, YEC definition) in man when crossing bridges or flying airplanes. Is there a problem with this? Shall I stop crossing bridges? Or is God signing off on bridges these days? Do you not see where your own logic takes you?
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