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Author
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Topic: How do Christians deal with the violence in the Bible?
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GDR
Member Posts: 6202 From: Sidney, BC, Canada Joined: 05-22-2005 Member Rating: 2.3
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Message 127 of 221 (229345)
08-03-2005 4:24 PM
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Reply to: Message 125 by Faith
08-03-2005 4:07 PM
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Re: OT types of Christ
When we get away from the literal vs metaphorical discussion I sure think you have some great insights. Great post!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 125 by Faith, posted 08-03-2005 4:07 PM | | Faith has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 128 by Faith, posted 08-03-2005 4:47 PM | | GDR has not replied |
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GDR
Member Posts: 6202 From: Sidney, BC, Canada Joined: 05-22-2005 Member Rating: 2.3
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Message 131 of 221 (229377)
08-03-2005 5:35 PM
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Reply to: Message 129 by ramoss
08-03-2005 5:12 PM
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Re: OT types of Christ
ramoss writes: I happen to disagree. Trying to fit things out of context makes it worthless. I don't see Faith as taking it out of context at all. As a matter of fact I see it as being very much in context. It is a continuing theme of OT scripture of blood sacrifice. This story of Abraham is as I read it, is God metaphorically telling the people of that era that human sacrifice is wrong and that it should stop. Christ was the culmination and the final sacrifice.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 129 by ramoss, posted 08-03-2005 5:12 PM | | ramoss has replied |
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GDR
Member Posts: 6202 From: Sidney, BC, Canada Joined: 05-22-2005 Member Rating: 2.3
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Message 136 of 221 (229403)
08-03-2005 6:20 PM
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Reply to: Message 134 by Faith
08-03-2005 6:07 PM
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Re: OT types of Christ
I think that there are a few possibilities. The most unlikely in my view is that Abraham just got it wrong or that he may have acted out a parable to emphasize the point. In my view the most likely scenario is that it is being told as a parable. For instance in the NT where Jesus is relating the story of the Good Samaritan there is nothing to indicate that it wasn't literally true. Jesus just starts out, "A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho.....". Why not take that story literally? You'd probably say that it is obvious. In my view the OT story of Abraham being prepared to sacrifice his son to me is obviously a parable. I think he probably was inspired by God to tell the story, in an attempt to put an end to human sacrifice.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 134 by Faith, posted 08-03-2005 6:07 PM | | Faith has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 137 by jar, posted 08-03-2005 6:25 PM | | GDR has not replied | | | Message 138 by Faith, posted 08-03-2005 6:26 PM | | GDR has replied |
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GDR
Member Posts: 6202 From: Sidney, BC, Canada Joined: 05-22-2005 Member Rating: 2.3
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Message 139 of 221 (229414)
08-03-2005 6:29 PM
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Reply to: Message 135 by ramoss
08-03-2005 6:14 PM
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Re: OT types of Christ
OK. I see your point but wasn't the tradition of that sacrifice carried on with the Jewish Passover. Would you agree that the atonement started with human sacrifice, which became animal sacrifice, then the passover and culminating in Christ? I'm not a Biblical expert by any means but I would have considered what you called sacrifices to be a part of their tithes.
ramoss writes: So no, trying to equate a human sacrifice (very much forbidden) to the sacrifices for atonement of sins is very inappropriate. Wasn't that the point of this story though? God telling his people to put an end to human sacrifice as it was wrong. I'm not suggesting that it had ever been part of his plan but had been instituted by man in trying to appease whatever God they were worshipping at the time, be it Baal or whoever.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 135 by ramoss, posted 08-03-2005 6:14 PM | | ramoss has replied |
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GDR
Member Posts: 6202 From: Sidney, BC, Canada Joined: 05-22-2005 Member Rating: 2.3
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Message 140 of 221 (229417)
08-03-2005 6:34 PM
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Reply to: Message 138 by Faith
08-03-2005 6:26 PM
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Re: OT types of Christ
Faith writes: It just seems that you view the story of Isaac's sacrifice as a metaphor or fiction simply because you refuse to believe it is real, and not for any reason having to do with how it is related. It is more than that. It is totally inconsistent with the picture of God the Father painted by Christ as God incarnate. There is nothing in the testimony as given by Jesus, or any other NT author that suggest God would act in such a fashion. The Bible must be read within the context of the entire Biblical message. This message has been edited by GDR, 08-03-2005 03:35 PM
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 138 by Faith, posted 08-03-2005 6:26 PM | | Faith has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 142 by Faith, posted 08-04-2005 4:12 AM | | GDR has not replied |
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GDR
Member Posts: 6202 From: Sidney, BC, Canada Joined: 05-22-2005 Member Rating: 2.3
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Message 184 of 221 (230739)
08-07-2005 5:09 PM
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Reply to: Message 183 by iano
08-07-2005 3:35 PM
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Re: God and violence and justness and us...
iano writes: This is the crux of your post. I think we're talking about 'different' Gods here Rahvin, so further discussion a bit pointless. See you around on the boards hopefully though. Cheers Iano I frankly don't believe that is the case. I have literalist friends in my church. We worship the same God together, as far as I'm concerned, and as far as they are concerned. If however you are correct in saying that you and Rahvin are worshipping different Gods I would suggest that possibly you are worshipping the Bible of God whereas Rahvin is worshipping the God of the Bible. Edit to add: I started thinking more about this and I just want to add this. It bothers me that you would close off your discussion by saying that we can't discuss this as you (Rahvin) aren't really a Christian. Who are you to judge? This message has been edited by GDR, 08-07-2005 02:36 PM
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 183 by iano, posted 08-07-2005 3:35 PM | | iano has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 185 by iano, posted 08-08-2005 8:53 AM | | GDR has replied |
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GDR
Member Posts: 6202 From: Sidney, BC, Canada Joined: 05-22-2005 Member Rating: 2.3
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Message 186 of 221 (230933)
08-08-2005 10:24 AM
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Reply to: Message 185 by iano
08-08-2005 8:53 AM
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Re: God and violence and justness and us...
iano writes: Who are you to say that judging is an incorrect thing to do (assuming for a moment that that is what I was doing). Would you refer to Romans 2 for instance which says "who are you to judge oh man...?" If so, you would be using the bible as a guide to how you think you and I should carry ourselves. Rahvins position is that there would be no objective problem with me judging, because his position is to take the parts of the bible that he thinks are correct and apply them. But according to that logic, I too could leave out parts of the bible that I don't feel are Gods words. In this case talk of judging others. Whose to complain? How can somebody get a handle on Gods character if he has no reference point or objective information. Maybe they can through personal experience but they can't debate it objectively because they have nothing but personal experience to refer to. If they say the bible is the objective reference but make their own subjective decisions about what actually form it then we are no better off. Everybody including literalists make subjective decisions about what they read in the Bible. One of the things that I have found about the Bible is that two people can read the same passage and both can come away having learned something valuable but the lessons that they have learned are entirely different. There is a great deal to be learned from the Bible but it is not meant to be read as a newspaper or science text. God gave us wisdom. He expects us to use it in our quest for truth and in our mission of loving God and loving our neighbour.
iano writes: Would you make the same comment if Rahvin worshipped Allah or one of the Hindu gods...who too also has different attributes to the God I refer to? As I see it Rahvin is worshipping the God that takes the entire Bible in context which includes God as revealed in the OT as well as God as our revelation of Him is refined in the NT. By taking the Bible literally you are virtually worshipping 2 or more gods. The OT should be read through the lens of the NT and understood as such.
Everybody is entitled to my opinion. 
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 185 by iano, posted 08-08-2005 8:53 AM | | iano has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 212 by iano, posted 08-08-2005 4:40 PM | | GDR has not replied |
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GDR
Member Posts: 6202 From: Sidney, BC, Canada Joined: 05-22-2005 Member Rating: 2.3
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Message 201 of 221 (231057)
08-08-2005 2:26 PM
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Reply to: Message 199 by Rahvin
08-08-2005 2:08 PM
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Re: Knowedge of good and evil
Rahvin writes: Why is it so hard to bleive that humanity has the same moral undertanding that God does? After all. We are made in his image.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 199 by Rahvin, posted 08-08-2005 2:08 PM | | Rahvin has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 202 by Faith, posted 08-08-2005 2:28 PM | | GDR has not replied |
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GDR
Member Posts: 6202 From: Sidney, BC, Canada Joined: 05-22-2005 Member Rating: 2.3
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Message 220 of 221 (231151)
08-08-2005 6:53 PM
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Reply to: Message 213 by iano
08-08-2005 4:43 PM
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Re: God and violence and justness and us...
iano writes: Rahvin, sorry if any offence caused. We are indeed not here to talk about whose Christian and whose not. Folk can indeed have all kinds of conflicting views and be Christian no the less. And that includes my view and your view. If God only picked for who got the picture 100% right then there's be no need for God eh? Nice post iano. We have a great deal more in common than we have differences.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 213 by iano, posted 08-08-2005 4:43 PM | | iano has not replied |
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