Video of Iraqi Insurgent being interogatted

let's try this again.

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Most of the prisoners, howeverby the fall there were several thousand, including women and teen-agerswere civilians, many of whom had been picked up in random military sweeps and at highway checkpoints. They fell into three loosely defined categories: common criminals; security detainees suspected of crimes against the coalition; and a small number of suspected high-value leaders of the insurgency against the coalition forces.

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Reporting | The New Yorker

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60% or more of the prisoners at abu ghraib were civilians. this is not really a debated fact, to my knowledge. iirc, many of them were there from when saddam was in charge.considering the degradation and sexual punishments used, the rape is exactly analagous. civilians were targetted as part of the enemy insurgency, and later raped or sexually degraded by the people handling them. most had nothing to do with the terrorists, it seems.so, although you intended understatement, it is (only) a little different: we didn't kill them afterwards.

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אָרַח

uh, yes, it was investigated. the parties in involved were court martialed in a court of military law. breaking the geneva convention is something people take very seriously. we call it "war." they call it "holy war." it's a holier-than-thou argument at it's core. what we do is war, but what they do is terrorism. what we do is ritual, what they do is idolatry. same thing. who are, btw, generally civilians, since they are not an organized state army. but that's generally not what people mean when they say "civilians" such as in the reference above. if we want to clarify, how about the term "non-combatant?"and uh, if we're not rounding up non-combatants, how did so many get in abu ghraib, to get molested and abused?

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אָרַח

yes, if i recall, they were not. they denied being involved, but you're right: that should have been investigated further.

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אָרַח

sorry, i wasn't really trying to argue that. i agree.

sadly, yes. i still believe in polls.

quote:

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Main Entry: 1poll
Pronunciation: 'pOl
Function: noun

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4 a (1) : the casting or recording of the votes of a body of persons (2) : a counting of votes cast b : the place where votes are cast or recorded -- usually used in plural c : the period of time during which votes may be cast at an election d : the total number of votes recorded

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i am a democrat. i believe in democracy:

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quote:

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Main Entry: democracy
Pronunciation: di-'m-kr&-sE
Function: noun

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1 a : government by the people; especially : rule of the majority b : a government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised by them directly or indirectly through a system of representation usually involving periodically held free elections

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polls are the heart of democracy. they are the voice of the people, and the votes cast. i believe in polls, and this is one thing i will fight to the death for.

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[added by edit] it is a sad day when the "lesson" to be learned is that peoples' voice doesn't matter, and that the polls are moot. and it is a sad day when people who claim to promote american freedoms do not stand for this basic and supposedly inalienable right, in favor of a regime "elected" in a court of law -- and THEN have the audacity to complain about judical activism as if it's something.

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This message has been edited by arachnophilia, 08-29-2005 02:40 PM

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אָרַח