Sad what creationism can do to a mind, part 2

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Originally posted by robinrohan:

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What gives you the idea that nature runs smoothly? It seems pretty chaotic to me. One example: birth defects. Babies born without arms or legs or whatever. Does that sound like a smoothly run organization? Whoever's running it should be fired.

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Firstly, it's not the fault of the CEO of a multinational corporation that the junior draftsman in the overseas electrical CAD department made a typing error which resulted in a deficiency in the original design.2nd'ly, what you described sounds like the "glorious" product of your evo-god, random mutation NOT providing new information or beneficial information but rather destroying and making defects...lets fire the evo-god!

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Originally posted by Mammuthus:

M: It is all about people who are blinded by a literal interpretation of some book about some mythological god and people who are not.

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No, it's about people who can't accept that there is a GOD and thus must do everything conceivable to invent stories (sugar coated and technical-jargon coated) and denounce the opposition in order to attempt acceptance of their quasi-plausible theory, and make themselves feel good that they discovered that contrary to all else, order and life appeared spontaneously by accident.It's ironic that evolutionists so often say to creationists what THEY are guilty of (ie. blinded to the truth)

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Firstly, it's not the fault of the CEO of a multinational corporation that the junior draftsman in the overseas electrical CAD department made a typing error which resulted in a deficiency in the original design.

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Are you saying God had to work through incompetent assistants when he designed life? So much for the omniscience/omnipotence bit...

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2nd'ly, what you described sounds like the "glorious" product of your evo-god, random mutation NOT providing new information or beneficial information but rather destroying and making defects...lets fire the evo-god!

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Oddly enough, that's the kind of (unfortunate) thing I'd expect to see if evolution were true. It's a messy process that sometimes just doesn't work very well. Too bad there's no "evo-god" to blame things on. However, if your God exists, s/he's got a lot to answer for...

[QUOTE]Originally posted by sonnikke: [QUOTE]Originally posted by Mammuthus:M: It is all about people who are blinded by a literal interpretation of some book about some mythological god and people who are not.QUOTENo, it's about people who can't accept that there is a GODM: Why should I accept something for which there is no evidence? Should you accept that a pink unicorn with a banana in its ear causes tidal waves? There is the same amount of evidence for both i.e. none.S:
and thus must do everything conceivable to invent stories (sugar coated and technical-jargon coated)M: Why is technical jargon sugar coated and why should those who study science use coloquial words to describe phenomenon, observations, etc?S:
and denounce the opposition in order to attempt acceptance of their quasi-plausible theory,M: You mean not just accept anything you say? No thanks. It is a debate after all S:
and make themselves feel good that they discovered that contrary to all else, order and life appeared spontaneously by accident.M: It does not make me feel good or bad. Just interested.S:
It's ironic that evolutionists so often say to creationists what THEY are guilty of (ie. blinded to the truth) M: the blindess of creationists to the truth is reproducible and supported by a huge amount of data And on that subject..since you cannot understand why "we" don't just fall down on our knees and accept your god..maybe you can help us all out here and supply the following...Is there a testable hypothesis for the existence of your god/a god/gods?
Is it a falsifiable hypothesis?
Can you make testable predictions based on the hypothesis?
Is there supporting data you can gather?
Can you think of any tests i.e. lab experiments etc. that would support your hypothesis?If you can (you would be the first creationist ever) then there would be some merit into looking into your views as valid..or at least they might be possible to substantiate. If you cannot, you are not dealing with something scientifically valid and the only support you have for your assertions is your own personal belief...and I have no reason to accept it merely because you say so.

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Originally posted by Mammuthus:

Is there a testable hypothesis for the existence of your god/a god/gods?
Is it a falsifiable hypothesis?
Can you make testable predictions based on the hypothesis?
Is there supporting data you can gather?
Can you think of any tests i.e. lab experiments etc. that would support your hypothesis?

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If you can (you would be the first creationist ever) then there would be some merit into looking into your views as valid..or at least they might be possible to substantiate. If you cannot, you are not dealing with something scientifically valid and the only support you have for your assertions is your own personal belief...and I have no reason to accept it merely because you say so.

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Once again, the very same thing you are asking me, is what you have failed to do..macroevolution has never been observed, life has never been created by man, the evidence (ie. fossils, etc) points towards creation...your "science" is also faith.Psalms 19:1. ... The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:That's your evidence.

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Once again, the very same thing you are asking me, is what you have failed to do..macroevolution has never been observed, life has never been created by man, the evidence (ie. fossils, etc) points towards creation...your "science" is also faith.M: So at least you admit that you cannot propose a testable hypothesis for creation and that it is purely religion and not science.Psalms 19:1. ... The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:That's your evidence. M: And poor evidence it is..I do not believe in god so your to passages are meaningless. How can you confirm anything in the above two passages?You believe creationism because of your religious beliefs that instruct you to accept creationism. Let's take it another way...what is to say it was not Vishnu who created everything and your god is not real? Who created your god? What is the evidence in either case?I have no more reason to believe your assertion or the two passages you quoted than to believe that Puff the Magic Dragon created the universe.As to failing to provide evidence for macroevolution...um..you never asked me to so that is a ridiculous statement. How does life not being created by humans have anything to do with evolutionary theory..but in case you do not think life was created by humans do you think babies are brought by storks?
And you did not support your assertion that fossils show creation...how exactly? What specifically.I will be happy to discuss the evidence for evolution but I asked you to first provide answers for the following which you ignored.Is there a testable hypothesis for the existence of your god/a god/gods?
Is it a falsifiable hypothesis?
Can you make testable predictions based on the hypothesis?
Is there supporting data you can gather?
Can you think of any tests i.e. lab experiments etc. that would support your hypothesis?This should not be very hard if you are correct...you answer the above or admit you cannot and then I will be happy to discuss evolution, macro and micro and any other topic you want.cheers,
M

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the evidence (ie. fossils, etc) points towards creation...your "science" is also faith.

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Please explain how the following evidence points towards creation:Phylogenies from genetic data match those from fossil deductions
Reptile - Mammal fossil sequence
Presence of hind limbs on fossil cetaceans. Gradual loss of this limbs in later archocetes compared with earlier ones.
Bird and reptile features of Archaeopteryx
Anything else discussed with painful regularity on this and similar boards.I think it will soon be clear whose position is really religiously motivated. Incidently, the two psalms you quote say nothing about how God created. Why should evolution have "do not use" tape on it in God's toolbox?

Hey Karl,When you reply to a post, can you hit the 'reply' or 'reply quote' button so that the forum software includes a link to the post to which you re replying? It makes tracking these discussions much easier.------------------
No webpage found at provided URL: www.hells-handmaiden.com

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Originally posted by sonnikke:
Sonnikke:
this is LOL stuff...WHO is spreading propagandistic nonsense? I tell you, the evolutionist has MUCH greater faith than the creationist.
To believe that everything we see and feel happened by chance without a designer...it goes contrary to all else that we know. No building ever builds itself; no organization runs smoothly without managament& planning (design)...there's design in virtually everything, why is it so hard for the evolutionist to attribute design to something so complex as life? It's all about faith in either THE God or the evo-god...

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*yawn*If you say so....

[QUOTE]Originally posted by SLPx:*yawn*If you say so....[/B][/QUOTE]Gee, that was easy...glad you see it my way...

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No, it's about people who can't accept that there is a GOD and thus must do everything conceivable to invent stories (sugar coated and technical-jargon coated) and denounce the opposition in order to attempt acceptance of their quasi-plausible theory, and make themselves feel good that they discovered that contrary to all else, order and life appeared spontaneously by accident.M: Actually, upon further reflection on this post you made...what about all those people who do accept god AND accept evolution...and even study it professionally?

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Originally posted by Mammuthus:

M: Actually, upon further reflection on this post you made...what about all those people who do accept god AND accept evolution...and even study it professionally?

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Yeah, I know they're out there....it seems like the "fence sitting" thing to do eh?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by sonnikke:
[B][QUOTE]Originally posted by SLPx:*yawn*If you say so....[/B][/QUOTE]Gee, that was easy...glad you see it my way...
[/B][/QUOTE]Yes, your argument was so compelling and filled with supporting documentation that I would be a fool not to adopt your beliefs at once...

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Originally posted by SLPx:

Yes, your argument was so compelling and filled with supporting documentation that I would be a fool not to adopt your beliefs at once...

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hardy har har... that's my point...there is so much technical jargon involved in some threads that you just don't have time to read it ...Listen, explain to me (as if I was 6 years old) how life came about, survived to even "evolve", became the immense variety we see around us today, and why there's so much variety from one cell...

I'm sorry you don't want to go out of your way to learn enough about evolution to follow us in the threads, but that is like asking us to to explain String Theory with no math.I'd be much more interested to hear you tell us about evolution, to see if you really understand it.